## Not by Birth, But by Training Hyderabad, August 22, 1976 Conversation with Seven Ministers Of Andhra Pradesh **Government should be scripture-based...training for the social body** **Prabhupāda:** Our subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that systematize... **The **progress of human society should be systematized according to *śāstra*. Just like your government, it is conducted under certain rules and regulations. You have to refer to the government regulative principles, and expert government officers, they are selected. Formally it was ICS, now it is IAS. That means reference to the authorities. Similarly, there are authorities which are called *śāstra*. *Śās-dhātu* means to rule. From *Śās-dhātu*, *śāstra* and *śastra*. *Śastra* means weapon. If you do not act according to the *śāstra* then there is *śastra*. *Śastra* means weapon, government. If you violate the rules of the government then there is police department, there is military department which will force you to accept the government regulation. And from the same *śās-dhātu* is *śiṣya*, one who voluntarily accepts the discipline. > yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim [*Bg *[[bg/16/23|16.23]]: "He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination.] The aim of human life is *parāṁ gatim*. *Parāṁ gatim* means the supreme perfection. *Gatim* means progress, and *parām* means the supreme. Our life is progressive... So nature's law is there, *prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ*. [Bg [[bg/3/27|3.27]]]: "The spirit soul bewildered by the influence of false ego thinks himself the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by the three modes of material nature.] We are not independent. We are dependent under the laws of material nature.** So we should properly utilize this human form of life, and government or king means to guide the citizens how to make progress of life. That is the duty of the government. They should be given all chances to make progress**. Formerly, all the kings were responsible for the progress of the citizens, progress of life. The same principle should be followed. That is the statement of the *śāstra*. The *brāhmaṇa*, *kṣatriya*, *vaiśya*, *śūdra*. **To maintain the body, just like we require the head, the arms, the belly, and the legs, similarly, we must maintain the brain of the society, the *brāhmaṇa*; and the arms of the society, *kṣatriyas*; and the belly of the society, the *vaiśyas*; and the legs of the society, the *śūdra*. Everything is required. Not that simply brain is required and leg is not required.** No, everything is required under proper guidance for the total benefit of the society. So direction is there. That is *śāstra*. *Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya*...** If we do not care for the *śāstra*, whimsically manufacture our own ways of life, *na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti*, it will never be successful. ***Na sukham*. And there will be no happiness. *Na parāṁ gatim.* Therefore the whole process is *yajñārthāt karmaṇa*.* Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ* [Bg [[bg/3/9|3.9]]]. Yajña means the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu. *Yajña* means *yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ*. After performing *yajña*, if we enjoy life, then there is no sinful reaction. Otherwise, *bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt*. [From *Bg.* [[bg/3/13|3.13]]: "The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin.] So all directions are there in the śāstra, and the essence of all Vedic literature is the *Bhagavad-gītā*. So at the present moment, our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that it doesn't matter what kind of state it is, but it should follow the principle of *yajña*. *Yajñārthe karmaṇa*. Otherwise, we shall be responsible... This is the principle. *Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ*. [Bg [[bg/3/9|3.9]]]: "Work done as a sacrifice for Viṣṇu has to be performed, otherwise work causes bondage in this material world. Therefore, O son of Kuntī, perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain free from bondage.]** I have seen in Bālajī temple, mostly cultivators, they come, stand whole day there just to offer something, *yajñārthe*, for the satisfaction of the Lord. It's a great culture. ***Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra*. So *karma*, ordinary fruitive activities should be carried on for *yajñārthe*, for the satisfaction of Bālajī, or Kṛṣṇa. Not otherwise. The same, what is gathered as contribution, it should be utilized for *yajña*. Because the money is given for *yajña*, not for other purposes. That is a fact. Of course, the money is there. The innocent villagers, they have given the money in good faith that Kṛṣṇa or Bālajī will accept it and their hard labor will be successful. *Yajñārthe karmaṇa*. Now that money should be properly utilized for *yajñārthe*. Actually, everything belongs to God, Bālajī. *Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam* [Īśo mantra 1]. We are claiming unnecessarily, "This is mine." That is called *māyā*. Nothing belongs to us. Everything belongs to the Supreme Lord. But we have claimed the Lord's property as our own. That is misgiving. Therefore *yajña* is recommended. Return to the Supreme voluntarily. That is called *yajña*. > varṇāśramācāra-vatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam [*Cc Madhya* [[cc/madhya/8/58|8.58]]] [*Viṣṇu Purāṇa* 3.8.9: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Viṣṇu, is worshiped by the proper execution of prescribed duties in the system of varṇa and āśrama. There is no other way to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One must be situated in the institution of the four *varṇas* and *āśramas*.] **The *varṇāśrama-dharma*, *brāhmaṇa*, *kṣatriya*, *vaiśya*, this is plan just to teach the whole society how to perform *yajña*. ***Varṇāśramā cāra-vatā*. Therefore this is the beginning of human civilization. *Varṇāśrama*. How to return back. Just like Bali Mahārāja. Bali Mahārāja achieved, obtained, throughout the universe all the property, and he again returned to Vāmana. That was his success of life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to teach people how one should voluntarily return the property of the Lord to the Lord. That is called *yajña*. *Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ* [Bg [[bg/3/9|3.9]]]. So people actually suffering. Not only... This material life means suffering....That is stated in the *Bhagavad-gītā*: > ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ [*Bg *[[bg/11/1|11.1]]: "Arjuna said: By my hearing the instructions You have kindly given me about these most confidential spiritual subjects, my illusion has now been dispelled.] **This *idaṁ guhyam*, this confidential knowledge of *Bhagavad-gītā*, should be spread all over the world. People are suffering.** And that is the mission of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He advises that > yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa [Cc Madhya [[cc/madhya/7/128|7.128]]] [*Cc Madhya *7.128: "Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa as they are given in the *Bhagavad-gītā* and *Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam*. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.] **So it will be glory of India if we preach the message of Kṛṣṇa, *Bhagavad-gītā*. **They're accepting. And I wish that the Bālajī's estate, Bālajī's money, should be spent for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not for any other purpose. That is my request. **Devotees:** Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. **Indian:** Please permit... **Prabhupāda:** Your question is? **Indian:** Yes, *varṇāśrama*, I wanted to, Swamiji... **Prabhupāda:** Yes. *Varṇāśramācāra-vatā*. **The *varṇa* and *āśrama* I've already explained. Just like for maintenance of the whole body there are different parts: the brain, the arm, the belly, and the leg. Similarly, *varṇāśrama* means the head—*brāhmaṇa*; the arms—*kṣatriya*; the belly—*vaiśya*; and the leg—*śūdra*. So by nature these divisions are there. *Varṇa*, four *varṇas* and four *āśramas*. **Four *varṇas* means social divisions, and four *āśrama*, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, *brahmacārī*, *gṛhastha*, *vānaprastha*, and *sannyāsa*, the social division must be observed. The brain must be there. *Brāhmaṇa. *Everything must be there. Not only the brain. The arms also required—military department or *kṣatriya* department. *yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam* [in battle not fleeing" from *Bg.* [[bg/18/43|18.43]]: "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and leadership are the natural qualities of work for the *kṣatriyas*"]. The *kṣatriyas* are so brave, they don't go away from fighting field, battlefield. Just like Arjuna was trying to become nonviolent. Immediately Kṛṣṇa chastised him: > kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam asvargyam akīrti-karam arjuna [*Bg *[[bg/2/2|2.2]]: "My dear Arjuna, how have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the value of life. They lead not to higher planets but to infamy.] So everything is required.** It is not that everyone should become *brāhmaṇa*. Neither it is possible that everyone should be able to become *brāhmaṇa*. **It is not so easy thing. But a class of *brāhmaṇa* must be maintained. A class of *brāhmaṇa* must be there as ideal to consult with them. **Similarly, a class of *kṣatriya* must be there, a class of *vaiśya* must be there. This is called *varṇāśrama*. For the peaceful execution of material life, these things are required, division.** Just like in your government you have got some different ministerial department. **You have introduced, this minister is for this department, this minister... Similarly, the brain department must be there.** Without brain, even... Suppose a madman, he has got his hands and legs, but it is useless because the brain is lost. So brain must be there. So this *varṇāśrama*, revival of *varṇāśrama* is required. A class of men, *brāhmaṇa*: > śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg [[bg/18/42|18.42]]] [*Bg *18.42: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, knowledge, wisdom and religiousness—these are the natural qualities by which the *brāhmaṇas* work.] **As there are different educational system, there must be an educational institute where these things are taught:** how to become truthful, how to become self-controlled, how to become full in knowledge, how to become full believer in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. *Āstikyam*. In this way, **as there is necessity of engineer, as there is necessity of medical man, as there is necessity of so many other departmental chiefs, similarly, a department of *brāhmaṇa*, a department of *kṣatriya*—that education must be given.** But in this age, because nobody is interested, so everyone is *śūdra*. *Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ*. [In this Age of Kali, everyone is born a *śūdra*.]: > paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam [*Bg *[[bg/18/44|18.44]] "... for the *śūdras* there is labor and service to others.] Everyone, all over the world, they are being educated to seek after some good service.** ***Paricarya***:** he must have a good master; then his education will be... He cannot act independently. So therefore in the *śāstra* it is said that everyone is anxious to get a good job, therefore, *kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ*, in this age almost everyone is *śūdra*.** So if *śūdras* are there only, if there is no *brāhmaṇa*, no *kṣatriya*, no *vaiśyas*, that society will not prosper very much.** If we accept the injunction of the *śāstra*, > yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim [*Bg *[[bg/16/23|16.23]]: "He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination.] So this *brāhmaṇa*, or *kṣatriya*, *vaiśya*, it is not by birth. It is by qualification. *Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ*. [From *Bg.* [[bg/4/13|4.13]]: "According to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, {the four divisions of human society are created by Me...}"]*Guṇa*. One must acquire the quality of *brāhmaṇa* and he must act as a *brāhmaṇa*. Then he is *brāhmaṇa*. *Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ*. Even in *śūdra* family, if one is born *śūdra*, but he has attained the quality of a *brāhmaṇa*, he must be accepted as *brāhmaṇa*. That is the *śāstra* injunction: > yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB [[sb/7/11/35 1976|7.11.35]]] [SB [[sb/7/11/35 1976|7.11.35]]: "If one shows the symptoms of being a *brāhmaṇa*, *kṣatriya*, *vaiśya* or *śūdra*, as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification.] *Yad anyatra*. If the quality of *brāhmaṇa* is found in a person who is born in a *śūdra* family, he should be accepted as *brāhmaṇa*. **Similarly, if the...śūdra quality found in brāhmaṇa.** I mean to say birth, by caste, as it is going on now, so Nārada Muni has said... This is the statement of Nārada Muni, the greatest authority. *Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet* [SB [[sb/7/11/35 1976|7.11.35]]]. **So birth is not the final thing. If one is born in a *brāhmaṇa* family or *kṣatriya* family, he has got the facility to become quickly a *brāhmaṇa*; but if he has no quality, if he does not practice, then he is not to be accepted as *brāhmaṇa*.** You may be a son of a high-court judge, but unless you have got the quality of high-court judge, **it is not that because you are born of high-court judge you become a high-court judge.** That is not, that is not the quality. The quality is... **So therefore I say that there must be educational institution for training *brāhmaṇa*, *kṣatriya* especially.** And *vaiśyas*, they do not require any academical area.* Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam*. [*Bg *[[bg/18/44|18.44]]]: "Farming, cow protection and business are the natural work for the *vaiśyas*...] They can learn simply by associating with another *vaiśya*. But *brāhmaṇa*, especially require education, Vedic literature. *Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna- pratigrahaḥ*. [from SB [[sb/5/17/11 1975|5.17.11]] purport: "*Brāhmaṇas* are supposed to acquire six kinds of auspicious qualifications: they become very learned scholars (*paṭhana*) and very qualified teachers (*pāṭhana*); they become expert in worshiping the Lord or the demigods (*yajana*), and they teach others how to execute this worship (*yājana*); they qualify themselves as bona fide persons to receive alms from others (*pratigraha*), and they distribute the wealth in charity (*dāna*).] *Kṣatriya* also requires education. Others, they may not require education. Practical training. **These things should be introduced. Then human society will be perfect. Not by birth, but by quality, by education, by training.** But that is possible. So your answer... **Indian:** No, the institution for training this Swamiji? Your proposition? **Prabhupāda:** Yes. Yes. I have got so many ideas. **Indian:** In Hyderabad. **Prabhupāda:** Hare Kṛṣṇa. Brāhmaṇa Guidance for Kṣatriyas, Hyderabad, August 22, 1976: Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh