Room Conversation — July 1, 1977, Vṛndāvana

Prabhupāda: Yaśodāmāyi was always thinking of Him, “Here is my son. How to give protection? How to give Him food? How to…” She did not that He is God, but she knew… Gopī knows… He did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. They know “There is God.” That’s all. That God is in front of them, that they did not know. They thought, “Our beloved child, beloved friend, dearmost friend…” That’s all, absorbed in Kṛṣṇa. That is the…, their purpose.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They weren’t distracted by Kṛṣṇa’s opulence as God.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They weren’t distracted by Kṛṣṇa being God. They were simply seeing Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Prabhupāda: …saw the universes, universe, within the mouth of Kṛṣṇa. So he… She was desiring so many things. Then, when there was no solution, “Oh… He’s my child.” That’s all. She forgot everything, that, what his desire was, what she desired[?], whether it is magic or this or this or that: “Don’t mind. There is my child. That’s all.” [pause] Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is his wife. So they were friends. She was this woman’s friend before this woman knew about Kṛṣṇa. So she’s trying to encourage her.

Prabhupāda: Very good. [break] …yatra is going on nicely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She’s supposed to appear in New York Ratha-yātrā, San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All three, with all of…, many of her followers.

Prabhupāda: Public will see how we can unite white and black by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be very good result.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lot of black people follow her. All of her followers are black people.

Prabhupāda: Introduce this Ratha-yātrā in every city. Great festival. It will attract people. When we first…, first or second year, Upendra was dancing like anything. [laughs] You remember?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the second year. Around the tree he would dance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do you remember that?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. [laughs]

Prabhupāda: Maddened with gladness. You were sitting by my side. That was very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the big festival. Remember how many people came?

Prabhupāda: No, it was very, mean, engladdening festival. Everyone…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Remember that hall at the end? Everybody was standing and jumping and chanting. You stood up with all the chanting.

Prabhupāda: It was very successful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You even danced on the cart that year. Because the cart could not pass under the tunnel, so instead you stood up and got everybody dancing. Twice you stood up.

Prabhupāda: Now they are demonstrating something else. Let them make their…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Demonstrating?

Prabhupāda: That space? They’re making some huts.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. That means at the conclusion, where the festival comes to at the end, apart from the stage where Lord Jagannātha is, where the devotees will be chanting, there will also be many booths, selling prasāda and your books. So these booths will be set within little houses that look like Indian-style houses. It’ll appear like Jagannātha Purī. That’s what they want to make it look like. ‘Cause San Francisco they call New Jagannātha Purī. Anyway, it’ll give a feeling of cultural change. It’s one… It may be… It’s one of the very biggest festivals now in the United States. It is already.

Prabhupāda: Last time, when I was there, so many young persons, they were giving me, “Thanks, Prabhupāda.” They were feeling some enlightenment. Do you remember?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Out of their own accord, they were giving, “Thanks, Prabhupāda. Thanks, Prabhupāda.” They were not my disciples.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, with great feeling they were serving.

Prabhupāda: Others. But they felt an ecstasy. So continue this ideas, and they will be very innocent and transcendental. It has nothing to do with material contact. Material contamination cannot touch it. Your country, very vast and big. Some of them have become [indistinct]. Hare Kṛṣṇa. But during Ratha-yātrā, everyone will be shown. Such a nice festival. Everyone will be forced to give. That is beginning. [break] Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very much. She’s impressed with every single aspect of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Special feature of our temple, you’ll see, younger generation, boys and girls from respectable families, they are coming. Did you mark this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I did. I’ve seen generally throughout India that respectable younger people are attracted. They may not join fully, but they’re attracted to our movement. One of the things that attracts them is the fact that there are Westerners who are sincere here, ‘cause they want to imitate the West, and yet here are Westerners who are devotees. And they are amazed. They like that feature, that there are not only… There are both a mixture of Indian and Westerners. They like that. They feel that it is very…, that the Westerners must have come out of some, you know, intelligence.

Prabhupāda: And they are hearing the philosophy also. In the evening class they come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, yes. Bhavānanda always has young people coming to Māyāpur. Intelligent, well-educated, wealthy people’s children come. He yells at them like anything. He tells them that “Why are you imitating the West when you have the greatest culture?” Bhavānanda Mahārāja yells at them, chastises them. They like it. Naturally they like it, because he’s praising their culture.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is a fact. And the books are selling very nice, Bengali?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. Now there’s about seven or eight parties traveling around India, simply doing book distribution.

Prabhupāda: That is our aim.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. That was never before. Now that is going on. They have vans just like in America, and they travel, city to city, distributing the books.

Prabhupāda: That is real program. You must always be fit. So he has taken how much, loan?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja? Well, he’s taken two different loans. One loan is for vans. Took fifty thousand rupees. He’s now paid off ten thousand. Every month he’s sending regularly five thousand. He’s done that regularly now. And then he’s taken another loan…

Prabhupāda: For printing books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: …for printing books.

Prabhupāda: One lakh of rupees, hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it isn’t that much, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It was about forty-five thousand rupees so far.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, he can take any amount of money, provided he returns.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That’s what I told him. After I received the second payment, I said, “This is very good. If you continue to pay off to me, you can expect to get more loans.”

Prabhupāda: So I am very eagerly waiting. If some of our men get permanent visa, then I’ll do very vigorous propaganda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [laughs] You’re waiting for that.

Prabhupāda: Waiting for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You’re holding back a little bit because it’s not sure that we can stay here now.

Prabhupāda: No, training men, and they are forced to go away. Very bad government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For no reason. We’re not in any way a threat. We’re an asset.

Prabhupāda: And therefore I say, if the government considers this and do, then we can expect. Otherwise what is the use of meeting with? Waste of time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: If they do not understand the importance of the movement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think they must.

Prabhupāda: If they are intelligent, they must. But they are all rascal, rogues, thieves and…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa has given you all facilities, so why…? I’m sure He’ll give this one also. I just got a notice from… The visa people gave me notice in writing that on such and such date I have to leave, and I have to think how to appeal. They’re harassing everybody.

Prabhupāda: You can write that “Our permanent visa is being considered by the Central Government.”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our application pending.

Prabhupāda: “If required, you can inquire from the Minister of…”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Home.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Foreign Affairs.

Prabhupāda: Foreign Affairs, that “My position, it is in his hand now.”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, by the time I write my letter, my name will be one of those people on the list, so it’s a fact.

Prabhupāda: When he is going to submit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said in two weeks he’d be returning and submitting, so I’m thinking about four or five days. Around five.

Prabhupāda: Mention this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that’ll be a good…

Prabhupāda: In the meantime, your notice to you can be submitted by him, that “This is…”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is a good example. Yeah, I mean, I’m now your personal secretary….

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: …and even me they’re harassing. Ridiculous.

Prabhupāda: This should be done very carefully. “He’s acting as a secretary, so important, and he’s [indistinct].”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: “Could you please give a little…” And if they say, “Then why did you come as a tourist and not on an entry visa?” I’ll say, “Because it’s impossible even to get entry visa.”

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is impossible. You can sometimes wait for years to get entry. They force us to come on tourist visa by not granting entry. Then they say, “Why did you come on a tourist visa? Why didn’t you get entry visa?”

Prabhupāda: Dilemma.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it is a…

Prabhupāda: If you come this side, you are condemned. If you come this side…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, both ways. In either case we’re condemned.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I’ve seen that Kṛṣṇa always helps you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Even against Mr. Nair, such a big demon, the way he was acting… I mean, simply by your devotion Kṛṣṇa did everything.

Prabhupāda: No, if it is actually considered by the Cabinet, there will be some…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then there’s a good chance.

Prabhupāda: You show me the list of men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I’m writing Gopāla, so I’ll tell him to send a copy here. He’s the one who’s composing the list.

Prabhupāda: He alone doing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he was going to do it in conjunction with the temple presidents in India. And me. Said he was going to do it in conjunction with me and the temple presidents. I don’t see how he’s going to do that, sitting in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: You did not ask that “You are here, and I am seven hundred miles away. How you’ll do?”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, I wrote him a letter stating…

Prabhupāda: Simply explanation, but there is no practical. I receive only explanation—“I did it. I did it.” That’s all. Where is the action?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him to…

Prabhupāda: You told him, that’s all. Where is the action? If that is idea, “I told him,” what is the result? Nothing. In every case, “I told him.” This is the sign of irresponse… It is so important thing—simply “I told him.” That’s all. “Then my business is finished.”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He left the day we came here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is going on, simply explanation, “I told him.” That…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don’t know what further I could have done, because he left.

Prabhupāda: That’s all right. Then do it like that. That is guḍākeśa. This practice you’ll never be able to accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, I wanted to do this when we were in Bombay. I was going to write all of the presidents. At that time you advised me that we should wait until something, you know…

Prabhupāda: It is very important to select the names. He is doing alone. “He told me.”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn’t tell him to do it alone. I told him with Gargamuni and Girirāja and himself, they should sign. I told him specifically not to do it alone. And I wanted to write the temple presidents, but you advised me a few months ago not to. I was going to get a list from them, recommended, and then sit with, you know, Gopāla, and decide which of the fifty people chosen…

Prabhupāda: That’s all right. Don’t require.

Upendra: Massage… [break] [end]

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