# Conversation with Shriman Narayan [Former Governor of Gujarat] — May 2, 1977, Bombay <audio controls preload="metadata" src="https://media.prabhupada.io/audio/1977/770502R1-BOMBAY.MP3"></audio> **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Please come. Sit down. Sit down.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Sit here?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. Sit down. Please come, Mātā.] Your wife... Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. How is your health?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I am not well.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Not well. Hmm.] Indian lady: [Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa's wife.] [Transl. It's very hot.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Here?] Indian lady: [Transl. Yes, Here in Bombay.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Not more than your Wardha.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes, less than Wardha. It's cooler here than Wardha. But you look weaker than before.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. We are planning to go to Kashmir.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You will go to Kashmir?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes, The climate is very cold there now.] **Girirāja:** This is prasādam from the Deity. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: Yes. [Transl. This is my eldest son.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I see.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. He works in Dubai in a big building project of India.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I see.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. In that project, he is...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. In Dubai? Is he engineer?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Dubai. United Arab Emirate. This is the first big project.] Mr. Bharat: [Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa's son] [Transl. It is the first major Indian project. The biggest construction project of India so far. It will cost one hundred crores. And all the required materials will be shipped from India.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. All the materials, labours are from India.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I see.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. All the engineers and labours are from India. The people there are very happy with the work.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Hmm. Indians are intelligent by nature. This I have studied.] Indians... So, but they have sacrificed everything for..., to imitate the Westerners. [Transl. The knowledge India has got, what can be said about that!] But we have locked it. Our knowledge, we have locked it, and we are trying to imitate. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: Yes, true. Imitation is not good at all. We must keep our originality and ancient culture. **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. This is our great culture.] Vedic culture. [Transl. It has been spoiled.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Now your health should improve as soon as possible.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. It is an old machine.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Machine.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. It is a machine.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You told me that you arrived in America at the age of seventy-one with only forty rupees in your pocket. You told me. But within ten years you have created wonders.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. The government would not allow to carry more money than forty rupees. Besides, I didn't have any money. So I thought let me go with that only. Sumati Morarji had given me a seat in her ship. So with forty rupees I went.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. In ten years you have accomplished so much.] Indian lady: [Transl. In ten years you created wonder.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Just see within ten years.] Indian lady: [Transl. You went at the age of seventy-one.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You went at the age of seventy-one and had only forty rupees with you. Aside: He is about eighty- two years old I believe.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. And now I bring ten lakhs rupees every month from there.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Ten *lakhs* coming.] Indian lady:* [Transl. Per month.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Per month. I was asking about your Māyāpur project, you told me it would cost about two hundred crore. So I was asking from where this huge amount of money is coming. And I came to know that your main income is from your publications. Aside: So much income from the books he has published.] Indian lady: [Transl. Yes.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I write books at night.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Don't you write now?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. That work I don't stop.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You don't stop. Which book are you writing now that is yet to be finished?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Oh. That same Bhāgavata translation is going on.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Bhāgavata.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Now I am working on the Tenth canto, forth chapter.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Tenth canto.] **Prabhupāda:** With great praise our books are. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Now they are published in all languages. They said even in Chinese.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. Chinese, Japanese.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. China, Japan Russia. All languages.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Not all. Some are left.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Some are left. In how many languages do you have books?] **Girirāja:** Twenty-three different languages. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: Twenty-three different languages. [Transl. In all the major languages you have published. This is a great achievement.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. It is the mercy of the Supreme Lord, otherwise a person cannot even write one or two books in his whole life.] Within ten years I have already given eighty-four books. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: Eighty-four books. [Transl. Here are the books. Not all of them I think.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. No. No. All are our books.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes, [aside: all are his books. but you have more, eighty-four in total.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes, we have more.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. These are not all. Do you print all your books in that one place only?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Now we have started printing in Hindi also.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Hindi also you have?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Show him.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Very neat and nice printing. Very good printing. Great work. In your main printing press in America, are the books of all the different languages published? Or there is arrangement for their printing in different countries?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. No. Most of the books are printed in America. Now we have started here also.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Started in India also.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Good quality paper is available there.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Very good composition and printing. It looks attractive.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. It will look even better.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. It will look better.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. If all of you help then this work can expand even more.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. It can expand more.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Neither the government nor the leaders like you come forward and help us...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You have nothing to do with the government.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. We have everything to do with the Supreme Personality of Godhead.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You are concerned with God directly.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. And it is God alone who is pushing forward the entire movement.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. But there were so many inquires going on.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I was very happy, you told me before at Wardha that some litigation against us is going on, but now it is all clear. It came in the newspaper also.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Still there is some. People are so mischievous.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. The Supreme court there has dismissed the charge. Is it not?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. They have accepted that the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement is bona fide religion.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. This is very good that the Supreme Court of America has given the judgment in your favour. Some people accused that they are spoiling our younger generation.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. ..Forcibly kidnapping our...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Kidnapped our... But now everything is peaceful, isn't it? Or something more is going on?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Mischief will go on.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. It's over now.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Mischievous people will always play mischief. *yasya hi yaḥ svabhāvasya tasya sau duratikrama śva yadi kriyate rājā śva kiṁ nā sa duḥkḥapānam...*.. A person cannot give up his own nature. Suppose you make a dog a king, it will not stop licking shoes. *śva yadi kriyate rājā śva kim nasa duḥkhapānam.* That's its business. Therefore people's nature which has been twisted, that has to be changed. And to reform it the Supreme Personality of Godhead appears Himself. *yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata* [[bg/4/7|[Bg. 4.7] ]] [Transl. When people in general forget the duty of a human being, that is called *dharmasya glānir* or declination of religious principles. So whenever there is a decline in religious principle *yadā yadā hi dharmasya* the Supreme Lord descends and instructs how to act in life. He comes and tells *sarva-dharmān parityajya* [[bg/18/66|[Bg. 18.66] ]] But nobody hears Him. Forgive me, but even the big, big leaders don't care about Him. What to speak of others.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. But the Supreme Lord's disc does not spare anyone.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. No, the Lord's disc will spare you. The Supreme Lord says *mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te* [[bg/7/14|[Bg. 7.14] ]] But the illusory energy Māyā will not spare you. *daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā.* No matter how hard we try to get rid of Māyā, she will not let you go free. Mām eva ye prapadyante But a person who surrenders unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Māyā will free him. That nobody will do. In today's newspaper it was reported that Jaya Prakash Nārāyaṇa met some of his friends in London and he told them everything is "God's will". We say that if "God's will" is final then why don't the leaders find out what God is, and what does God will? That part they skip.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. Svāmījī Mahārāja, It does make a difference. I met Morārjī Bhāi two times and he was telling me, as I know him since many years...,] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. You always have meetings.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. .. so he was telling that after staying in the jail for nineteen months my faith in God has increased. "How did it increase"? He said I had no hope that I will ever come out of the jail alive. They will release me.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Too old also.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. He is eighty-two years old also. After coming out he can form the Janta party in a few days.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That was a miracle.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. It was a miracle. So I told him that indeed it was a divine miracle. No human could do it. He said "Everything was done by God. I didn't do anything." I said you simply became an instrument. Ultimately the Lord has done everything. If out of pride someone says "I have done it", that's not true. A strange miracle happened. Nobody even thought about it. So in this way his faith in God enhanced so much. Jaya Prakashjī also, I met him three days ago and he was also saying "Whatever God wills that will happen. Whatever He says that is final."] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. The thing is, you are an experienced person, whatever the Supreme Lord had personally instructed, that institution you should keep intact. In politics there is always quarrel. It happened before also.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes. That will continue to happen.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. But the culture you have got, that you don't sacrifice. You keep it intact. That way not only your country will benefit, but people outside India will also benefit.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. The whole world will benefit.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. At least what I am attempting to do alone, spreading this Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement, you kindly keep this institution intact. There is so much harassment for us. We face so much oppression. You can't believe.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Really? Here also something happened.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. The amount of oppression we faced here...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Here? In India?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. In Bombay.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. In Bombay?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I didn't know that.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Still now it is going on.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Really?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. This Municipality.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Municipality?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. They caused trouble to us from all sides.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Why? Do they create problem purposely?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. Harrassment.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Harrassment?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. What else? There is nobody to protect. This is our point. This Police Commissioner, a public officer declared "Hare Kṛṣṇa I mean, Performance of kīrtan is nuisance."] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Nuisance?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. He declared in writing. The temple cannot be built. The Supreme Lord says in *Bhagavad-gītā, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ* [[bg/9/14|[Bg. 9.14] ]] And this public officer, government officer, Police Commissioner says *kīrtan* is nuisance.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. Nuisance.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. This is your government.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I see.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. There was so much difficulty in the beginning to build this temple, to acquire the plot.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. In the foreign country it is more convenient, but in India things are more difficult.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That's why in the foreign countries people join in wholesale. But here nobody comes, nobody helps.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Here they don't allow. Not to be allowed.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I see, you mean from the government side? It must be from the government.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Even I approached the Governor through another Governor. This Chaddha Renia...] **Giriraja:** Chenna Reddy. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Mr. Chenna Reddy, from Hyderabad.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. He is our life member, just like you are. He requested the Muslim Governor...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Oh. Nawab Sahab. Nawab Ali Yavar Yang.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. He didn't do it. But this Mr. Chavan, he kindly helped, otherwise it would not have been possible.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Oh they think these are C.I.A. agents. They should not be allowed.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You have started a big project in Māyāpur. There is no problem there, no?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That is not started yet.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Not started yet?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. What problem could there be? It's in the village.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. It's in the village.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. But we have had so much problem here in Bombay that I felt like crying. Still they are giving us trouble.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Still they are causing?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. Especially Municipality.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Municipality?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I have no support. What wrong have we done? I am writing books at such an advanced age. I am selling those books all over the world and bringing ten lakh rupees every month and attempting to do something. What's my fault? Tell me? You all are there, kindly protect this.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I didn't know you had to go through so much trouble in our country.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. We are meeting you now only. But anyway whom should we tell our plea to?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Who to tell? No, in Wardha you were talking about America. You didn't mention about here.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Everywhere it is like this.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Everywhere?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. To kill Prahlāda, even his own father was prepared! Prahlāda Mahārāja and Hiraṇyakaśipu were father and son. So even the father was all set to kill his own son! Forget about others. For others, if there is an enemy then that's another thing. Only five year old boy, and the father became so inimical that he was prepared to kill him.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. He tried in so many ways.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That is our position. Godless society. We also have God. *kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam.* [[sb/1/3/28|[SB. 1.3.28] ]] Accept Him. Follow His instructions. *man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru* [[bg/18/65|[Bg. 18.65] ]] [Transl. We simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa says. We don't manufacture anything. But nobody cares.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. They become so sad that government is not happy despite so much money is coming into our country every day through foreign exchange. They are thinking that all this money is coming for spreading lawlessness here.] Indian lady: [Transl. They are not thinking that without our flattering money is coming..] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes without our support...] Indian lady: [Transl. They don't think it's coming through divine arrangement. Simply envious.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Due to our own hard work.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. From hard work, from your publications.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. I went to Dubai and the king offered me the contract for rupees one hundred crore. After all the materials had been shipped from here I went and met the king. After that our counselor from government of India went to the king and said to him that I have heard such and such person had come to you, but he has not come through proper channel. So I would request you not to give him the contract.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Just see! The order of the Indian government!] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. What's his fault?] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. The king told me this that your counselor came and said like this. I said to him "Thank you. I know what I am doing."] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Why? What is the fault?] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. What is the fault?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. what's the fault? People are coming from India, materials are coming from India still..] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. They should provide him protection. Did he mention any reason why or just talking?] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. No reason.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. He didn't come via me. He came directly.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. He didn't come through me. He directly approached you. He wanted that he should have talked to the King, take his appointment and then talk to me.] Indian lady: [Transl. Look, whoever he wants to send, he will send. Everybody wants his own man, it doesn't matter whether the work is done or not. They want their own man. That's all.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. He didn't speak to me or anything. As soon as I went there I met him.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Didn't give you time?] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. He did give me an appointment and I met him. But he didn't show any interest. So I went straight to the king and talked to him. He said "Very good" and he offered me the work.] Indian lady: [Transl. He looked at the tender and checked everything.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. He told me to start the work. Just then this person goes to him and tells him "Don't give him work. If anything goes wrong, the government of India will not be responsible." Anyway, it's been two years now. Now he comes to me and requests "I need to meet the king. Please help me. Please help me to get this job done, that job done". I mean this is the attitude. Had it been some other country the counselor would have personally requested the King to give job to his fellowman.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Still the Lord's work must go on. Isn't it?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. We are servants of the Supreme Lord. We must obey His orders. And to do that we face problems. What can be done?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I was saying that my sister went there to visit, this Rāvaṇa kidnapped Rāmacandrajī's Sītā, and how much worried the poor Rāma became? He searched for Her everywhere in the forest. Finally in due course of time He came out victorious. Kṛṣṇa too had to run away you see. Finally He went to Dvārakā and found peace. Everyone, all the kings had to fight for whole life, for country etc. This Kaṁsa and others. They fought for whole life. Ultimately the battle of Mahābhārata took place. In that battle He became a chariot driver and as a chariot driver He had to work hard. You take the example of Lord Buddha. It says that at last He was offered sweet rice mixed with glass-powder, poison and thus He was killed. Jesus Christ was also crucified. And Gandhiji was shot dead. So those who work for God, it seems they have to die like that only. But the incarnation of the Supreme Lord, take the example of Prahlāda, it is the Lord's pastimes that in all such activities various impediments are always placed. And after the impediments things start to speed up. Muhammed Sahab also...] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. His sons...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. No, he was driven out from Mecca and Madina by throwing rocks at him. He was thrown out from there. What a strange pastime!] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. We should find out more truth about this harassment here. What is their problem? So much news appears in the newspapers. May be the top leaders have said something like-anti national activities. I think to build the temple....] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I think some change is required, because the previous government, in the name of secularism, they could not tolerate any religion. But now this new government will not do like that I believe. There must be some change in attitude.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. No. Apart from that something is needed. Just like Morarji Desai is realising now. You all keep this institution moving. By doing so, you will get benefit, prestige, and by distributing it in the foreign countries India's glory will be enhanced. Is it not?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes. It's a great thing. I am sure that no movement other than this has worked so hard in the foreign countries.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Therefore you keep this movement going. We were harassed like anything. How much can we tolerate? And if you come forward and co-operate then so much can be achieved.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes, so much can be done. So much work can increase.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Kindly do that. What to do? Nobody comes forward.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. One of you keep in touch with Brahmacarijī, about where and what is the difficulty, and I will also speak to Rāmakṛṣṇajī. I am really very sad to hear all this. I didn't know anything about all this.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Anyway he will go. If you kindly arrange a meeting.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Do you go?] **Prabhupāda:** [about Girirāja] You can speak with him in English. He doesn't understand Hindi. Shriman Nārāyaṇa: Anyone who can keep us in touch with what the difficulty is, then Rāmakṛṣṇa Bajaj also will be helpful. I can also be helpful at the higher level. Surely we can help. I was not aware of all of this. [Transl. You had to go through so much difficulty. I didn't know anything at all. I thought you had all the support. This is very sad.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Simply throttling. This police commissioner...] [break] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. This new chief minister is a good person I heard. This Vasantrao Patil who has come, he has interest in these things.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. You kindly...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I believe you will get support. And Morarjibhāi and others have got immense faith in these things. I don't know whether he is aware of all these things or not, but you have got a center in Delhi, is it not?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. We have a rented place there. We have one in Vṛndāvana.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes, in Vṛndāvana you have got.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. We can open center in each town and village by the mercy of the Supreme Lord. But where is man power? Who will preach? Indian people don't come! And these people have come....I want to make a personal request to you that immediately these people...just like in America they have given me Emigration visa, similarly at least to some persons who are pushing on this movement, we need people, so can't they be granted permanent residence?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. They don't give.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. They don't give. Can't Morarji arrange something about this? With whom will I work? They come...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. They come and then after a few months, they don't get their visa extended.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. And in the process I have to waste five to six lakhs rupees yearly. They go back again and come back.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. They come back. Perhaps their visas are not extended after three months.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Three and three, six months. Then go back. Go. Go. Go. Go. They have to go back. Government order. You have seen these people with your own eyes. They have nothing to do with politics.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes. Yes. They have nothing to do with politics.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. And this I will guarantee you that they will not take a single paisa from India. We are bringing ten lakh rupees from there!] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes. You bring from abroad.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Still they are not allowed to stay.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. They are not allowed to stay. They go and again come back. How much expense just in coming and going! I think the policies of the Indian government so far, I mean of Indira Gandhi, someone might have complained to her that these people are...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. C.I.A.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. They are C.I.A. Something like that must be. So the whole policies...they might have sent circular also I believe as you are saying, to the state governments that "be cautious, be careful." I don't know exactly what. But now It can be investigated.] Indian lady: [Transl. The whole thing should be investigated through legal procedure and present it before public so that nobody from behind can say anything or any doubt can remain in their minds. People always question about law. So Svāmījī, let there be a procedure in which...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. The procedure has already been discussed in the parliament.] Indian lady: [Transl. Now the new party has come you see.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Perhaps you know about.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement receive money from America, from C.I.A. But the minister has denied it saying "We have no information like that." Then they asked "What is the state?" We said "What state? No state." They argued "So how do they meet their expense?" That was also replied.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Everything was replied?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. Their source of income is from selling literatures. This is already recorded in the parliament.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Already recorded in the parliament.] Indian lady: [Transl. Svāmījī, because the new party has been formed and started operating...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. The government is government. Whether new party comes and goes what difference does it make?] Indian lady: [Transl. Still...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Record is there.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Record is there. Record can be checked. If there is any inquiry, I think inquiry has been carried out.] Indian lady: [Transl. You can remind them that inquiry has already been done. So whatever support you can extend, we want your support, like this if you tell them...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Oh that will take two to four years.] Indian lady: [Transl. No. If there is any objection then from our side we should...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. What objection? *Bhagavad-gītā as it is,* Kṛṣṇa says clearly. We have got our books, literatures, what else do we do? Whatever the Supreme Personality of Godhead says, we follow it. What is there to see? If you keep your eyes closed, what can be done? If someone doesn't want to see how can you show him? One who pretends to sleep nobody can wake him up. These are the difficulties.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. Recently I met Atal Bihari Vajpayee who is the foreign minister, He is a very good person. He is well known to me.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Therefore I think whoever is in-charge of your Delhi or Bombay center, I will be in Delhi from 25th to 30th May, I will be there for one week, so if he can provide me all the details as you have just explained about visa problem, every three months they have to renew, any inquiry they have made etc, so that I can talk to him.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Where will our devotee meet you?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Gandhi Sma...I will give you the address. I will give the address. I live at Gandhi Smarak Nidhi. So that way at least I can speak to him.] [Aside to Girirāja, I will give you address and the telephone number also. Give me a pen.] [Transl. He should bring along all the literatures, give him those and explain to him everything.] **Prabhupāda:** You can take his telephone number and address. [Trans\_You are familiar with them from before, so if you want you can do so much.] And you can also develop that Gandhi *āśrama,* [Vinobha] *āśrama,* just to the point of *Bhagavad-gītā.* That is my request. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. Yes. *Bhagavad-gītā* was Gandhiji's whole life. Vinobhaji also...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. But he gave interpretation. That's all.] That is distortion. [Trans\_That's what they all do. Now Gandhiji's theory is nonviolence. Where is it in *Bhagavad-gītā?*] Indian lady: [Transl. Svāmījī, you have got so many beautiful pictures, so many publications and so on. I often wish that today's children finish their college, then they find a job, get married, beget children and thus enter into *gṛhastha āśrama*-society, so if from the very beginning, from the time of *garbhadhān...*] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That's why we have opened Gurukula. In Vṛndāvana.] Indian lady: [Transl. Yes. The knowledge of *Bhagavad-gītā,* and Lord Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, if presented in a way that is suitable for children...] **Prabhupāda:* [Transl. Young boys...It is meant for young boys only. Is *Bhagavad-gītā* a serious scripture?] Indian lady: [Transl. Not *Bhagavad-gītā,* but the philosophy...] **Prabhupāda:* [Transl. Philosophy, If you keep your eyes shut, who can show you anything?] Indian lady: [Transl. No, for boys...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Boys can understand.] Indian lady: [Transl. In a easy way...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. It is the old people who misguide them.] Indian lady: [Transl. Therefore I request you...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. It is the fault of the old people.] Indian lady: [Transl. But if you please...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. The thing is clear.] > dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre > samavetā yuyutsavaḥ > māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva > kim akurvata sañjaya > [[bg/1/1|[Bg. 1.1] ]] [Transl. Kurukṣetra is there. Kurukṣetra is *dharmakṣetra* or the place of pilgrimage. Even a boy can understand this, but an old man comes and says Kurukṣetra means something else. The old man spoils him. This is the difficulty. Otherwise whatever is written in *Bhagavad-gītā,* even a small boy can understand.] Indian lady:* [Transl. Suppose we go to a bookstall here...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Forget about bookstall. Actually the original texts of *Bhagavad-gītā,* even a small boy can understand. But some old man comes and ruins everything.] Indian lady:* [Transl. I wish you have pictures of young Kṛṣṇa-Gopāla and along with them you explain something....] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. What pictures. When the subject is plain and you interpret it in a different way and spoil the whole thing then what the poor fellow will do? Your business is to distort.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. It should be understood as it is.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. There is no need for explanation.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Where is the need?] Indian lady: [Transl. Not explanation but through illustrations. Nowadays we have animal pictures, so why not God's pictures?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. What illustrations, if you have already ruined his brain then what these illustrations will do?] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. *Bhagavad-gītā as it is.*] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. *Bhagavad-gītā* as it is. Yes. What you are saying is correct. It should be understood as it given.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Now the Supreme Lord is saying *man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru* [[bg/18/65|[Bg. 18.65] ]] even a boy can understand it and do it. You bring any boy here in the temple and tell him "Here is God, pay your obeisances to Him," he will do that.] Indian lady: [Transl. I have a feeling....] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. But if you say "This is stone. God is something else. He is not God." Dr. Rādhākṛṣṇan said "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Finish Him off. And Dr. Rādhākṛṣṇan has said, Gandhi has said. Now he is finished for life. What is the difficulty? Is to think of the Supreme Lord always, to offer Him obeisances, and to offer little flower very difficult? But your leader will not allow you to do. He is gone. He is finished for life. This is going on. Then what is the use of showing him pictures? You have already spoiled him.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes. They should present it as it is.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Whatever comes from the lotus mouth of the Supreme Lord...actually they don't accept Kṛṣṇa as Bhagavān or the Supreme Personality of Godhead.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Don't accept?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. No. He is not Bhagavān. Bhagavān is something else. *Avajānānti mām mūḍhā,* those who are *mūḍhās* or fools, they don't accept Kṛṣṇa as Bhagavān. If you don't accept Bhagavān then why do you interfere with Bhagavān's book? This is our opinion. If you have any theory, then write your own book?] Why do you take *Bhagavad-gītā?* [Transl. You want to smoke hemp, smoke with your own hands! Why through someone else's hands? Use your own hands.] Why this? This is our protest. If you want to understand *Bhagavad-gītā,* you understand as it is. For example, we are talking frankly.* [Transl. In your Gandhi *āśrama* you have built, his *Gītā* is your life and soul, in that it is recommended that you worship Gandhi's lantern. [sarcastically laughs]. I don't criticize this is fact. I saw it. [Transl. There is not a single picture of the Supreme Lord! Kṛṣṇa. And the Supreme Lord says *man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru* [[bg/18/65|[Bg. 18.65] ]] So where is that? All useless.] Simply distortion. What benefit you will get? [Transl. It is clearly stated *evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ paran-tapa.* [[bg/4/2|[Bg. 4.2] ]] That *paramparā* or disciplic succession has been lost, therefore the yoga or the knowledge of the Supreme Lord has been lost. What is the use of giving that which has been lost? Rasgulla is there, but it is stale and rotten, so what is the use of feeding it to you? You will become sick! What benefit will you get by consuming rotten stuff? And *imam rājarsayo viduh* ..It was not meant for the lofar class. It is meant for the big, big saintly kings who run the government. *yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro jana*ḥ [[bg/3/21|[Bg. 3.21] ]] If the government officers understand this then common men will also understand. But the *rājarṣis* or the leaders don't follow it. They are neither *ṛṣi* or saintly, nor *rājā.* Sometimes you all become at least *rājā*- Governor etc. so once a while you sit down and work with your intelligence. We did not change anything. *Bhagavad-gītā as it is.*] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. That's true.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. We did not distort. We didn't compromise with that. We present as it is. The Supreme Lord says *mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya* [[bg/7/7|[Bg. 7.7] ]] There is no superior authority above Me. We accept it. Whatever the Supreme Personality of Godhead says, that's right. What is our difficulty in that? A greatest authority has said something and we accepted it. We haven't had to manufacture anything.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Now people have interpreted Bible here, they interpreted Koran and other books, actually these things are happening in India only.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. It is very simple for us to follow. The Supreme Lord says *man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru* [[bg/18/65|[Bg. 18.65] ]] And we teach, here is God. This is God's Deity form, you offer your obeisances to Him, and perform *kīrtan.* They do it. So there is no difficulty for us. It is going on nicely.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. You have accomplished much more than all the others.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Result must be more than others.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. This *Gita...*] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Because there is no adulteration, no distortion.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Nobody could accomplish so fast. What you have done in ten years.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. This fact people should understand. We present *Bhagavad-gītā as it is.* We don't make any change. How dare I change the words of God? Is God my child? If Kurukṣetra meant something else, then is God foolish not to mention it? We have to explain it? Just see? Why do you do like that?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. Presenting one's own view...] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. In the name of God...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes, in the name of God.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That is cheating. Then how will you be successful?] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. And those who read, they become confused.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That's all.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. How many *Gītās* should we read? This view, that view, and someone else's view.] **Prabhupāda:* [Transl. But nobody cares for Bhagavān's view. [laughs] So greatly learned that "Forget Bhagavān's view and present lofar class view!"] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. No, if they want to write, then let them write their own new book?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. Write your own philosophy. Everyone has a right. Why do you misinterpret Bhagavan's view?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. There is no problem for that. Why in His name?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. By doing like that our country has been spoiled. And no welfare for others in the world has been done. Now we have started it. You all kindly extend co-operation. Morarjī is little God realised. You explain to him little about us. If possible, some of us can meet him once and explain to him. But one thing...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. First let someone come to me with the literatures.] To Girirāja: You understand what I am saying? Somebody should come with the literature.... **Girirāja:** Right. Yes. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: ...the literature. Not the whole book, or the book, but some basic literature with a catalog of difficulties which are being faced from the government side. Then it will be easier. [Transl. I meet Morarjibhāi every now and then. So if you come then I will arrange a meeting with him. He is a devotee of Bhagavān.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. I know that.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. He has got so much faith in these things.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Only some misunderstanding...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Might be some misunderstanding of the central government, but now that will be cleared.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Please come. Sit down.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Did you meet him before or not?] Indian man (2): [Transl. No. Today only.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. He is Baijubhai Patel. There is one Institution called Gandhi Siksan Bhavan here in Juhu. There is training college etc. which he runs.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I see.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I am the President of Akhil Bharat Naitarin Samiti[?] and he is the Secretary. As a Secretary he extends me so much support. Anyway, I took so much time of yours.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Not at all. Give *Prasad.* Make arrangement.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. First of all your health should improve.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes, it is an old machine. No matter how much you repair, it will continue to remain in disorder. But our work will not stop.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Not stop. It will go on.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. The translation of book which I write at night, the real work, that is going on.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You are planning to go to Kashmir in a few days time, is it not?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Where do you recommend?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. That's a good place. The climate is good and will be conducive for your health.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. everyone suggests...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes. Shrinagar, or some place nearby. Shrinagar will be hot.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Not hot. It is cold there.] **Indian man:** [Transl. Gulmarg is good.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Gulmarg or Pehelgaon.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Pehelgaon will also be crowded.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I want to go to such a place where I will feel hungry, so that I can eat something. I am unable to eat anything. That's why I am becoming weak.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You don't feel hungry? I see. But how is the water there? Is water good there?] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Shrinagar water is hard. It comes from the hills.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. How about Chashma Shahi? In that case Dehradun or Mussoorie would be better. Water from these places...] Indian lady: [Transl. Mussoorie is not so lovely.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. There is no good water in Mussoorie.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Water should be suitable to health.] Indian lady: [Transl. Mussoorie water is good.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Loveliness, I have seen enough by traveling around the globe more than ten times.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. That's true.] Indian lady: [Transl. Wherever you feel comfortable...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Wherever you feel comfortable and the water is good so that you will feel hungry.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Like that Shimla is also a nice place.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Water from above the hills should be conducive.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Water from any crowded place won't be good.] Indian lady: [Transl. Wherever is more favorable to you, you go there.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Hmm. He thinks Shimla is better?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. No.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Near Mussoorie. But water...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Water has to be good. Wherever good water is available...] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Rishikesh?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. How is Panchmarhi? Panchmarhi?] Indian lady: [Transl. No. No.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Rishikesh or little up Uttarakāśī, this side.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I see. Haridvāra?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Haridvāra-Rishikesh.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Haridvāra. Little above Haridvāra. Haridvāra should be a good place. The water should be nice there. Rishikesh would be better than Haridvāra.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Rishikesh would be better. Miraben and others...] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Water is good there.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Water is good there.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Gaṅgājal.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Gaṅgājal.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Good water.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Pure water. On the bank of Gaṅgāji, Rishikesh is a good place. Haridvāra, Rishikesh, and if you go a little up towards Uttarakāśī...] Indian lady: [Transl. Towards Joshimaṭh.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. If you get Gaṅgājal, I think that would be very nice to you.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Pure Gaṅgājal.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Pure Gaṅgājal.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That is available there only.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Only there. And that will be good for your health.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes! Gaṅgājal is great! *patita uddhārīṇi gaṅge* or Gaṅgā is the deliverer of the fallen.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. You kindly go to any place near the Ganges.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. May be little higher than Rishikesh.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Little above Rishikesh like Uttarakāśī.] Indian lady: [Transl. Joshimaṭh has also been developed I heard.] **Indian man:** [Transl. Where is Gaṅgā in Joshimaṭh?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. No. Gaṅgājal. Near the Ganges if possible. Once I also became very sick when I was the general secretary of the Congress party. That time I stayed on the bank of the Ganges at Rishikesh, that place where Miraben-that Britisher stayed, what you call Madeleine Slade...] Indian lady: [Transl. Pashulok.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Pashulok. I stayed at that place for fifteen days within a cottage. So every morning I used to drink Gaṅgā water there, take bath and perform my *bhajan.* It was there where I studied *Bhagavad-gītā* and *Upaniṣads.*] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. *Sāttvika* life.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. Completely *sāttvika* life. My father was with me. Within fifteen days, it was a miracle.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Really?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I didn't go anywhere else. I simply roamed around there. I bathed in Gaṅgā, I drank Gaṅgā water.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Take little *Prasāda.*] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. We should take away. How can we take so much? Too much!] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. You distribute among yourselves.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. We will distribute among us.] Indian lady: [Transl. How could take here?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Bring plates for everybody.] Indian lady: [Transl. We will share it among us from this only. We can't take so much.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. As you please.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. We will do like this. We will partake little from this as *Prasāda.*] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. As *Prasāda.* Not too much.] Rishikesh this side, from the hill point of view, will be better than Kashmir.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. Water from Shrinagar will not suit you.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Water is not good in Shrinagar.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. It's dirty also. As per your digestion and health condition some place on the bank of Gaṅgā above or in Rishikesh would be good for you.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Rishikesh is a good place. It's not too high also.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Rishikesh is very good.] **Prabhupāda:** Bhogilāljī, he has got his house near Rishikesh? **Girirāja:** Yeah. I think near Haridvāra. **Prabhupāda:** So Shriman Nārāyaṇajī recommends there. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: Rishikesh will be much better. **Prabhupāda:** He is there now? **Girirāja:** Ah, I'm not sure. **Prabhupāda:** So his son is there. **Girirāja:** Yes. **Prabhupāda:** You can bring one blank. **Girirāja:** The empty plate, yes. **Prabhupāda:** What they cannot take. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. We will take from this only. Little bit.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Please have some.] It will be very great pleasure. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Not here. We will not trouble you. We will go outside and take from this.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. No. You sit down and take here only.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. [laughs] Take here.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. It will give me pleasure. I have no appetite. I cannot eat.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. We will do like this. We will take as much as we want from this. We should not waste.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Prasāda you should honor up to here. [Showing up to throat] Everyone laughs) *Ākaṇṭha. prasāde sarva-duḥkhānāṁ hānir asyopajāyate* [[bg/2/65|[Bg. 2.65] ]] Yesterday one kirtan party came here. About three, four hundred people came. It was ecstatic.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Three, four hundred people?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes, and they were given *Prasāda.* We advertise that you all come, take *Prasāda* and perform *kīrtan.*] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. Do *kīrtan.*] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Everything else we will do. We will beg money from all over the world. No problem for us. And we do bring money. Who will give ten lakhs rupees in India?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. About ten lakh rupees worth of literatures you sell every day! That's a great job! The literatures that you sell like *Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad Bhāgavatam* and so on...] **Prabhupāda:** Daily five to six lakhs. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: Five to six lakhs net income. Profit. Net income. **Prabhupāda:** Not net income. Sale proceeds. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: Sale, sale. Indian lady:** [Transl. Sale.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I bring ten lakh rupees every month. To spend here.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. From there? To spend? That goes for donation?] **Prabhupāda:** Not donation. Sales proceeds from my books. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Sales proceeds. That means ten lakh rupees per month income.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. At least.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. At least. From that everything is being built and things are going on.] Indian lady: [Transl. All projects are...] **Niranjana:** Most of the books are sold in America or the Western countries or in our country as well? **Prabhupāda:** Mostly in western countries. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Mostly they are sold in the western countries.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Who buys here?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Who will buy here?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Here also people buy with respect.] All universities, libraries, professors, they take it. **Girirāja:** [to guests] Is there anything you can't take? [referring to *prasāda* leftovers] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: Whatever we want to take we take in this... **Prabhupāda:* [Transl. No...] **Girirāja:** I mean don't want to take. **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Please take Mātājī. *Prasāda,* there is no harm in taking more.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. Svamījī, what time do you take your evening Prasāda?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Just once I eat little bit. And at night sometimes I drink little milk. That too once or twice a month. This is the difficulty that I cannot eat.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You cannot eat.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. May be by going to Rishikesh things will improve.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I think you must go to the bank of Gaṅgā. In Kashmir it will be crowded, dirty, and the water is not suitable.] **Prabhupāda:** So I can, we think Rishikesh we can go very easily. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Water will be good in Rishikesh.] **Giriraja:** All right. **Prabhupāda:** This time is very good. So let us arrange for that. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. It might be little warm during the day but...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That's not a problem.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Morning and evening is cool. Water is good, air is pure there.] **Prabhupāda:** So let us go there. Indian lady: [Transl. During the day you can put up a cooler or something.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. No need of air cooler or anything.] Indian lady: [Transl. Gaṅgā river bank itself makes a lot of difference.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Makes a huge difference.] [pause] **Prabhupāda:** So for all your difficulties, you approach Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa. He is the right person. **Girirāja:** We got the IOD today. **Prabhupāda:** I see. Then should begin. Build up. [Transl. For example, let me explain to you a difficulty. This plot was previously divided into many parts owned by different persons. At that time, the Municipality demarked a 10ft wide land as a public road. Okay. Later on another person bought it all.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Bought it?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. The one we have now. Because a single person bought it, it became a private property. We bought that land from him. Now the Municipality is adamantly claiming that it is public property. That demarked portion of the land belongs to public. When it was divided in parts, there could have been a public road. But now it is owned by a single person. So where is the question of a public road?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. A public road within the campus?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. There is no need to have one at all.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. No question about it.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Within the campus what is the use of a public road?] Everything belongs to us. So that question they have now set aside? That road? **Girirāja:** Well, they're waiting for us to make an official application. But on this IOD, the condition was there that we have to hand over that 10 ft. But that was crossed out. **Prabhupāda:** Then we can begin. That's all right. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Do you have a legal expert?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. We have no expert.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. To know the law and legal procedures requires...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Only these young boys.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. They do everything. [Aside: Did you see Baijubhai, how there is always obstacle in the path of good work. They give so much trouble, this Police department and Municipality.] **Baijubhai:** [Transl. Before also there was some problem here. The Municipal Counselor created problem.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. The local Counselor from here?] **Baijubhai:** [Transl. Yes.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. He is still causing.] **Baijubhai:** [Transl. Still it is going on.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. That same person is in-charge now?] **Baijubhai:** [Transl. Look, I live here just adjacent to this place.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes, he resides nearby. Why does the Counselor create problem?] **Baijubhai:** [Transl. This Mhatre who lives here, he doesn't like all this.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. These people are saying that the local Police Commissioner has given in writing that the kīrtan they perform is nuisance, public nuisance. [laughs]] **Baijubhai:** [Transl. The construction in the Nadia district of West Bengal is complete?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That's a village only.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Mayapur? Bengal. It's a big project. About two hundred crore rupees project. They were saying, no electric, no petrol there. Only bullock cart, cows, cow-dung gas is used for lighting. Industries. Village industries, just like the ancient traditional way. That is the plan. Is it not?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. As the way Gandhi wanted the village program, we want to do like that. That you live in the village, be satisfied, eat sufficiently, remain healthy, and chant the holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That's all.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. No problem. You earn by your own labor.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. The Supreme Lord is advising *annād bhavanti bhūtāni—annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ yajñād bhavati parjanyo.* [[bg/3/14|[Bg. 3.14] ]] But they have stopped the performance of *yajna.* You understand? The Supreme Lord has pointed out each and every reason. You perform *yajna,* you will receive sufficient rainfall in time. You grow food grains in the fertile land as much as you want. You eat nicely and chant the holy name of the Supreme Lord. This is *Gītā* solution.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. Take care of the cows and you will get an abundance of milk.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. *Go-rakṣā* or cow protection.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. *Go-rakṣā.*] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. But your government law says "Protect cow as long as she gives milk then slaughter her." The Supreme Lord did not say that. The Lord said *go-rakṣā* at any condition. The cow is so important that if she just passes stool and urine, still it is beneficial. That is why the Supreme Lord has particularly said go-rakṣā. Those who want to eat meat they can eat the flesh of hog or dog. The Lord didn't say *"Suar-rakṣā"* or hog protection. *Dog-rakṣā.* Eat. But why "go" or cow? Now in this land of Bharat-varṣa, in the land of *Bhagavad-gītā, go-hatyā* or cow slaughter is going on instead of cow protection. Where is interpretation? What is the interpretation? Answer?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. The resolution that Vinobhājī made, in that he put utmost stress on cow protection. Not bull. The cow...let us see what law they make about this.] **Prabhupāda:** No. *Go-rakṣā* in any condition. This is as it is. Why you amend? That is our protest.* [Transl. When the Supreme Personality of Godhead said *kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam.* [[bg/18/44|[Bg. 18.44] ]] Then cultivate land and give protection to the cows. He didn't say "Animal protection, hog protection, dog protection. If anyone wants to eat meat then eat these, but don't touch cows.] That is following *Gītā.* We want that. As it is.* [Transl. The Supreme Lord says "Protect cow".] This is following *Gītā.* [Transl. That is not happening, rather cow killing is going on. No. No. Please don't do that. You are... [laughs]] **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** Śrīla Prabhupāda, Would they like to wash their hands? **Prabhupāda:** Yes. You can wash. There is basin. You can wash. [Transl. No, you don't...] **Giriraja:** Here is the wash basin. **Prabhupāda:** No, if you want to wash your hands, you can. [Transl. Leave the dishes.] Indian lady: [Transl. I will wash the dish.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. There is not enough water here to wash dishes. Just wash your hands.] [Aside, as guests wash their hands.] Hmm. So for any difficulty you can approach Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa. He can do. He is connected with so many people. All the big, big men. You have taken his address? Girirāja and Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. **Prabhupāda:** Prasāda must be given. That will make them thick and thin. Don't neglect. If one takes *prasādam,* he will become thick and thin. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** Tell them they should go out through this door. **Prabhupāda:** [indistinct comments to Girirāja] [Transl. Sit down Mātājī.] **Baijubhai:** [Transl. Now they are going to college for some inspection.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I see.] Indian lady: [Transl. He is taking us. We are just going nearby to Teacher's training college.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. You come again at least, no?] Indian lady: [Transl. Sure. When do you plan to go?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Not decided yet.] Indian lady: [Transl. Not decided. No problem. We will surely come.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. You must come. This temple is built for all of you. What we need? The only difficulty is this Mhatre has caused. What is our fault?] Indian lady: [Transl. You are taking about the road? I will be taken care of.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. In every way, somehow or other he tries to harass us. What is this? *sarpaḥ kruraḥ khalaḥ kruraḥ, sarpat krutaraḥ khala,* there are two kinds of cruel. One is snake and the other is a cheater. But a cheater is more dangerous than the snake, because a snake can be charmed by mantras whereas a crooked person cannot be brought under control. *sarpat krutaraḥ khalaḥ mantrausadhivasah sarpam khalaḥ kena nivaryyate.* [Cāṇakya Paṇḍita.] [break] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I am familiar with the Mayor of the corporation, or the chief minister and so on.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. You must be.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. So I will speak to them and you keep in touch with them. And about the Indian government issue, that I will take care.] **Prabhupāda:** [to Girirāja: Do you understand what he is saying? **Girirāja:** Yes. **Prabhupāda:** For Indian government, he will help you. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes. I will help.] **Prabhupāda:** For local, he will help. For they are our well-wishers. So we approach these two persons for all difficulties. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: Yes. We should be kept in touch what the difficulties are. **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. You kindly talk to them.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I can talk to Morarjibhai, Atal bihari Vajpayee who is foreign minister, I have very good relationship with him.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Some protection should be given to us.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Why not? If not for good work then what's the use?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. This harassment...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I think the previous government which was in power, that of Indira Gandhi, they were pro-communists. This Rajni Patel of this place and others, they were all communist. They could not tolerate the name of religion. Now the atmosphere has changed. Now communist people's reign has turned upside down. So they need to be properly informed. Until the order comes from the higher authority to the lower authority, they will keep looking into the old files.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. So we will submit everything to you. What else? You see.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes. If there is any problem or something, then I will have them take out the file and clear it out.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. One point I would like to bring to your kind notice that we have a big organisation and we require at least twenty-five to thirty persons to manage each center. So in five, six places if they allow permanent residentship to about one hundred people...] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Should let them stay.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. This will be a great favour.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. It's very important.] **Prabhupāda:** So immediately we can do this. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. What is there is there? Your people are good. What is the problem?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That in our mission they may be provided permanent residentship. If anyone is found faulty then he can be deported. With this condition.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Can be deported. If there is any complain against anybody...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. They will not take a single paisa from India for their maintenance.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You receive money from abroad.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Yes. With this condition if you can do something please.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I believe there will be no problem now as the new government has come to power. People like Atal Bihari Vajpayee are religious minded. Morarjibhāi also. Previously they were not pious at all.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. All were *rākṣasas.*] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa:* [Transl. These communists people cannot even tolerate the name of religion. This...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. They are all Godless.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Cannot tolerate righteousness. You know how they used to write about foreigners as C.I.A. I think some kind of circular has come from the higher authority. And that circular becomes like an ultimate order for them. The government of India has said "Keep away from them". So everywhere they will cause trouble. That circular has to be changed. So if it is changed from above then many difficulties will automatically go away. So if one of your men meets me in Delhi then I will help him. And in Bombay I will talk to Rāmakṛṣṇajī and he will help you completely. And my request to you is that you please go to Rishikesh.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That we will arrange.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. If your residence will be on the bank of Gaṅgā then certainly you will be benefitted.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Is there any person who has his own house or something in Rishikesh? Do you know anyone?] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Dalmiajī has got.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Dalmiajī has got, Jayadayala has got. There are so many *Aśramas* in Rishikesh.] **Prabhupāda:* [Transl. Does Jayadayalajī have?] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Jayadayalajī also has.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. He is known to me.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Jayadayalajī has got. His house is located at a very nice place.] Mr. Bharat: [Transl. He will arrange everything.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. He will arrange everything. Jayadayalajī will arrange. Surely.] **Prabhupāda:** [to Giriraja: Contact Jayadayalajī. He has his house. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: You contact Jayadayala Dalmia, he will make arrangements. He has lot of influence in that area. His own house. [Transl. Otherwise he will arrange for you somewhere else.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Contact Jayadayalajī.] Indian lady: [Transl. We can contact that person you know from Vṛndāvana also.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. That we will see later. I will talk to him later. So if you go there surely you will...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. I can go now. If I get a place I will go right now. I will have to improve my health first.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes. That's very important. You will start feeling hungry and the air...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. You have got practical experience.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. Yes. Within fifteen days I felt so much difference. I stayed here in Juhu for one month, but there was no improvement. When I became sick I came to Juhu and there was no difference in my health condition. But there within fifteen days so much difference I felt.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Very kind of you.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. You gave us so much time.] Indian lady: [Transl. Your mercy. We got your *darśana.*] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. You are very merciful.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. I was going to leave by offering my obeisances to you from a distance as to not give you trouble.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Not at all. You came that's great. Please pay little attention to us. Struggling so much.] Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa: [Transl. So I take your leave.] **Prabhupāda:** *Jaya.* [Shriman Narayan and his associates leave.] Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:Everybody's appreciating this view. All the ladies were standing on the balcony. **Prabhupāda:**Now immediately contact Jayadal and Dalmia, and he has got a nice house. We go to Rishikesh immediately. It is very nice. Or Patel. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** Or Bhogilal. **Prabhupāda:**Then we haven't got to go to Kashmir. **[*Shriman* Narayan and his associates leave] **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** Everybody's appreciating this view. All the ladies were standing on the balcony. **Prabhupāda:** So immediately contact Jayadal and Dalmia, and he has got a nice house. We go to Rishikesh immediately. It is very nice. Or Patel. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** Or Bhogilal. **Prabhupāda:** Then we haven't got to go Kashmir. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** So first we'll contact Bhogilal, because he's in the city. If he cannot arrange, then we'll immediately contact Jayadal. Yeah, they're such close friends... **Prabhupāda:** Yes. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** ...they'll immediately do. **Prabhupāda:** Yes. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** And Rishikesh is known to be very good. Gaṅgā is there. **Prabhupāda:** So we can go there immediately. That decided. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** All right, Śrīla Prabhupāda. **Prabhupāda:** Rishikesh is appealing. To drink Ganges water... **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** Yeah. **Prabhupāda:** ...and take bathing in the Ganges. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** Yeah, I immediately feel attracted to going there... **Prabhupāda:** Yes. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** ...'cause it's a holy city. These other places were not so... This Rishikesh is holy city. **Prabhupāda:** It is nearer. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** So tomorrow I'm going into the city, anyway. I'll go and meet either Bhogilal or Pranlal. I have nice acquaintance with them, so I can meet them. Even if Bhogilal is not here, Pranlal is here. **Prabhupāda:** One of them can... **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** He can do also. **Prabhupāda:** Yes. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** So I'll make arrangements. Dr. Sharma is waiting for me, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so... **Prabhupāda:** All right, you go now. **Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:** I should attend. **Prabhupāda:** You are free. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [end]