Room Conversation — April 2, 1977, Bombay

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So your answer to his question, “Do you consider the message of Jesus Christ to be universal?” You say yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because he says, “Thou shalt not kill.”

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But none of them are following.

Prabhupāda: No, all bogus. And going on in the name of Christian.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. And he says he lived in our temples, but he is not satisfied with the Christian faith, but he is finding a great deal of satisfaction now living in our temples.

Prabhupāda: First of all become Christian, that you are following all the ten commandments. “Judge not others, lest you be judged.”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His second question is, “Considering that the Bible describes Jesus as the savior of the people of God, not only of Israel but of every man’s sins, does it not minimize his actual position to say that he is simply an avatāra, and does it not contradict the teachings of the Bible…?” First of all he says isn’t that minimizing him to say that he’s an avatāra?

Prabhupāda: We accept him as avatāra, śaktyāveśa-avatāra, empowered incarnation of God. That we accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, “Like any other revealed scripture, the Bible’s teachings are absolute, but are they to be understood literally or symbolically, and are they applicable for all men?”

Prabhupāda: Literally, not symbolically.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, “What is the actual meaning of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?”

Prabhupāda: It has no meaning. The people were so rascal that they attempted to kill him, because he was speaking of God. So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were. He had to deal with such rascals that he was speaking about God, and the result is that they wanted to kill him first. He preached, “Thou shall not kill,” and they killed him first. This is their intelligence. Now people are advanced. Those doctrines, they are not [indistinct]. That’s all. The answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, “Did Jesus die on the cross to redeem all the sins of the world?”

Prabhupāda: This is another sinful thought—Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities. That’s a plea, what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction. Instead of stopping sinful activities, we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So these people are not actually getting free of their sins unless they stop sinning.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of his preaching? They will continue sinful activities, and Jesus Christ will take contract for saving them. How nonsense idea this is! Bhavānanda, do you think it is good idea?

Bhavānanda: Not a good idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Nonsense rascals. These people should be immediately hanged.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Phew!

Prabhupāda: “Our religion is very good.” What is that? “We cannot stop acting sinfully, and Christ has taken contract. He will save us all.”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rascals.

Prabhupāda: How rascaldom it is! Nāmno balād pāpa-josit[?]. Nāma-aparādha. “I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so no sinful action will be.” It is like that. That means “I will continue my sinful activities and become a Christian, become a Vaiṣṇava, become a chanter.”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nāma-aparādha.

Prabhupāda: See whether I am answering correct.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, you are answering very good. He gives a lot of quotations from the Bible. So I’ll just read you two of them, and it is very easy to…

Prabhupāda: What is the use of giving me quotations from…? We are talking about practical things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. The only point I was going to bring out was that it is clear how they misread the Bible. Just like one of them says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.” But you pointed out that to believe means to follow his teachings. That they don’t understand. They say, “We believe in Jesus,” but they don’t follow his teachings.

Prabhupāda: Then where is his belief? Where is the question of belief? Unless strictly follow the teachings, there is no question of belief. It is bogus principle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it’s all… His next question is, “The essence of Christianism is to believe that Christ is our savior and redeemer, but the final test of one’s faith in Christ rests upon one’s hope that he will come back down to earth from heaven to establish his glory and his realm of justice forever. Is this second advent of his to be taken as a symbolic one, or will he actually come back?”

Prabhupāda: I do not know. What does he say? What does he say? Explain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does he say?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he quotes, “And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” In other words… “And shall he send…” There is so many statements in the Bible to allude that Christ will come again.

Prabhupāda: What is the harm if he comes again?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Practically that is the whole basis of the Christians’ faith, is they are awaiting for the day when Christ will come.

Prabhupāda: For the time being, you follow what he has said. Rather, what is the use of waiting for him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, if you don’t follow what he said, then even if he comes he won’t take you. He says if that happens, if Christ comes back, what will be the position of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? Nasty question.

Prabhupāda: That you shall see when he comes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [laughs] That we shall see when he comes. Right. For the time being, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is here. His next question: “What is this end of the world?” Then he says, “In your…”

Prabhupāda: The world will be devastated, and everything material… Your body is there. It is being maintained, and it will be finished. Similarly, the whole world body will be done in the same way. There is no other way. It is created, it is maintained, and it is finished. Naśa. It is called naśa in Sanskrit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that, n-a-s-s, naśa?

Prabhupāda: N-a-s-h-a. No—n-a-s.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: N-a-s. Means?

Prabhupāda: Naśa means devastated, finished. Apakṣaya-naśa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, “In your introduction to the Bhagavad-gītā you refer to Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianism and other religious faiths as sectarian designations, but isn’t Kṛṣṇa consciousness just another kind of designation in order not to call it Kṛṣṇa-ism, another ism?

Prabhupāda: No. That you have to understand later on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: “What is the difference between a pure Christian—or at least a sincere one—and a sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa?”

Prabhupāda: No difference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he read a passage of the Bhaviṣya Mahā-Purāṇa written by Vyāsadeva three thousand years before Christ, foretelling Jesus Christ’s presence in the Himalayas in 78 of the Christian era, and his meeting with King Shalavihana. Are there any other prophecies in the Bhaviṣya Mahā-Purāṇa or in any other scriptures telling more accurately Jesus Christ’s birthday?

Prabhupāda: Everything is accurate there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything is…?

Prabhupāda: Accurate there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that particular Purāṇa? He says he is sorry to take your very precious time, and he prays that you answer all of his questions, which you have done. So he thanks you very much for reading this letter and for your expected help. He asks one last question in a P.S., which I think is practically an important question. He says, “To practically follow Jesus Christ for a sincere searcher of the truth who does not recognize and accept the external manifestations of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is it possible to attain love of God?” No.

Prabhupāda: Love of God means God’s mercy. If God is pleased, He can do anything. So that pleasure of God can be awakened by love. This is called in Sanskrit kṛpā-siddhi, perfection out of affection, out of mercy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to know whether it is possible to attain that affection of love for God…

Prabhupāda: No, that is not generally…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: …without taking part in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: One must follow the regulative principles and refrain from sinful activities. Then it depends on Kṛṣṇa’s mercy. You cannot force Him to give you mercy. That is not possible. Mercy is mercy. You have to do your duty, and the mercy depends upon Him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good answers.

Prabhupāda: All good news?

Guru dāsa: [entering] Yes. This is very nice place, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Nice place. Better than anywhere?

Guru dāsa: Wherever you are is a tīrtha. When you are there, it is better than any place. Tīrtha-kurvanti tīrthāni [SB 1.13.10]. Tīrthāni-kurvanti tīrthāni. Where you are is…

Prabhupāda: Tīrtha-kurvanti tīrthāni. Svāntaḥ-sthena gadābhṛtā. One who keeps Kṛṣṇa always within the heart, wherever he goes, that is tīrtha. Everywhere Kṛṣṇa is there, but one who remembers, he is the yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā [Bg. 6.47]. It is very simple. But people will not be… Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām [Bg. 18.65]. The human life is a boon. One can do this very easily. But māyā is so strong. Very easy thing. Even a child can do. Dehāntara vasthite siddhi.[?] Maintaining this body. All right. What is their business? How to maintain the… Huh? What is their aim of life? How to live comfortably. That’s all. They do not know anything. So what is the Rādhā-Dāmodara arrangement?

Guru dāsa: There is no trouble there. I wanted to know if the Rādhā-Dāmodara file is in your almirah?

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Guru dāsa: The Vṛndāvana almirah? Akṣayānanda Swami thinks that it’s in that almirah, the file.

Prabhupāda: What is the need of that?

Guru dāsa: Not needed, but…

Prabhupāda: All right. So I have arranged with the bank to pay.

Guru dāsa: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So kanika[?] is offering?

Guru dāsa: Yes. Every day we put a nice photograph, that photograph that I took many years ago, in the frame.

Prabhupāda: Where is it put?

Guru dāsa: It is put on the upraised portion, where your daṇḍa is. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: Which room?

Guru dāsa: In the place where you took rest.

Prabhupāda: So offering every day.

Guru dāsa: Yes, that is being done.

Prabhupāda: That’s nice.

Guru dāsa: Do you want me to try and also get the rental of the room in the Nandagrāma temple, the old?

Prabhupāda: It is available?

Guru dāsa: The room is occupied now.

Prabhupāda: Then not possible. Otherwise you could have taken.

Guru dāsa: I can ask, though, for the future.

Prabhupāda: Gopal. Nowadays nobody is… I do not know what is the arrangement, but if it is available…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Probably you could get it. Someone’s probably paying fifteen rupees or twenty rupees a month for it.

Guru dāsa: He is very favorable, Gopal. He has your old telegram receipts. He saves them. Just like a devotee would save anything you write, he has them also.

Prabhupāda: Did you talk with him?

Guru dāsa: Not about the rooms. I just know him. Because I didn’t receive the instructions until yesterday.

Prabhupāda: He formerly offered me that “You deposit in the name of Deity ten thousand,” he would give me the Sevā-kuñja. So at that time ten thousand was not…, dream for me. So let him remain as he is doing, but we can do something with. You can improve by repairing and everything.

Guru dāsa: Yes. Also we have been distributing books at Rādhā-Dāmodara.

Prabhupāda: That is main business.

Guru dāsa: We have been distributing a few Gītār Gāns a day, a few magazines. To the pilgrims.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, something is there. And Hindi books?

Guru dāsa: Yes, Hindi magazine.

Prabhupāda: You have got small Hindi books?

Guru dāsa: Yes, yes. Some of those also are being distributed. Now also while I was in Delhi, on the way here, one king, one ex-king, approached a devotee about wanting to sell a place to us. He wanted to sell a house to us, to our institution. One king.

Prabhupāda: Where is it?

Guru dāsa: It is in Mount Abu. So they referred it to me. I went with the president of Delhi, and I saw the house. And…

Prabhupāda: Mount Abu between Jaipur and Delhi?

Guru dāsa: Between Jaipur and Ahmedabad.

Prabhupāda: Ahmedabad. Yes, yes.

Guru dāsa: It is a very high hill station, very clean air. And the house is sixty-three rooms.

Prabhupāda: Sixty-three. [chuckles]

Guru dāsa: Sixty-three. It’s a mansion. And one hundred acres.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Guru dāsa: And full of trees and jasmine flowers.

Prabhupāda: It will make nice scenery.

Guru dāsa: Beautiful. Heavenly scenery.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Guru dāsa: It’s a little bit hard to get to, but there is no place like it. It’s… When you go to that…

Prabhupāda: How to go up there?

Guru dāsa: Well, Ahmedabad…

Prabhupāda: No, to…

Guru dāsa: There’s car…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Zig-zag road.

Prabhupāda: Zig-zag. How long it takes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By car.

Guru dāsa: By car, from Ahmedabad… Because you can take the plane to Ahmedabad.

Prabhupāda: All through hills only?

Guru dāsa: No. The hill starts at a place called Abu Road. That takes about an hour by car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long to Abu Road?

Guru dāsa: By Ahmedabad? Two, three hours.

Prabhupāda: By car.

Guru dāsa: From Ahmedabad to Abu Road about two or three hours.

Prabhupāda: By train aslo.

Guru dāsa: Train also goes, three hours.

Prabhupāda: So how we shall utilize it?

Guru dāsa: Well, I was mostly thinking for your health, if you wanted it.

Prabhupāda: I am trapped. I am now trapped here.

Guru dāsa: It is a tourist center, but not a big one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not much preaching there.

Prabhupāda: Is there any Deities?

Guru dāsa: No. Actually, my opinion is that it would be a great endeavor to take it, because the house needs also some repair. Although it is in good structural condition, it needs cleaning. But the only advantage is that there is no place left in Kali-yuga like it. Because it is such a beautiful mansion. And one hundred acres and a lake and in a hill, that’s the advantage.

Prabhupāda: And what price does he want?

Guru dāsa: The price he didn’t say yet. That we would have to negotiate.

Prabhupāda: No, not only you, others also, you can see it first of all. If we can utilize; otherwise…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How would we utilize such a thing?

Prabhupāda: That you consider. Otherwise, why you should unnecessarily…?

Guru dāsa: In other words, some other devotees should also…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Put all the women there.

Prabhupāda: Where are so much women? [laughter]

Guru dāsa: So I have this for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is from Alex, for your cars.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes, he wanted to pay me. What is the amount?

Guru dāsa: Four thousand five hundred dollars. He gave it to me because he trusts me. [laughter] Then Poland, we’re very excited about going. Now there are six men, including Umāpati, and in two weeks we are meeting in Germany, and we are going to chalk out our preaching program. I think it will be very good.

Prabhupāda: Now the time is favorable. The Russians are ordering our books. And there is a prediction, the Russians will be first-class theists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First-class theists.

Prabhupāda: Now they are atheists. They will become first-class theists. I think that there is… Just like Jagāi and Mādhāi. Jagāi and Mādhāi became great devotees. Vālmī[?]. Vālmī was a dacoit. He became a… There are so many cases. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s movement is so superexcellent that we can turn the whole Russia to devotee. That is possible. They are searching after something solid and factual. They are harassed with this so-called Christian religion, Pope, and… That is a fact. They do not want anything humbug. But when they very critically read our literature, they will become devotee.

Guru dāsa: And they will read it more critically than people who have so much sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That they are realizing. And they have got respect for Indian culture. And because our books are always with reference to the old Sanskrit verse, and we are explaining that, they have got natural attraction. That is possible.

Guru dāsa: There’s trade agreements between Poland and India too, now. So we may even be able to open up channels on cultural or trade basis from India from our side with Poland to give us a very established position in those countries.

Prabhupāda: These dollars has to be deposited in Bank of America. Other bank will not take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any bank will convert.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. I mean, when anybody comes here, any tourist, they always bring dollars.

Prabhupāda: Is that?

Guru dāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, it was done in the Central Bank, Māyāpur.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Dollars is easy.

Prabhupāda: All right. So organize that party.

Guru dāsa: What about a receipt? Can you make one?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want a receipt?

Guru dāsa: Just a kāccha one.

Prabhupāda: So you can keep it.

Guru dāsa: So Śrīla Prabhupāda, I am going to go very soon.

Prabhupāda: So you like this place?

Guru dāsa: Oh, yes. This is fit for you—almost. It should even be more greater.

Prabhupāda: I am fit for everywhere. With great struggle we secured this place.

Guru dāsa: Actually, we have all struggled together for many years for so many things. And it is only by your grace that we were able to do it.

Prabhupāda: [break] …Vṛndāvana affairs going?

Guru dāsa: Yes. I would just like to submit that I don’t know what has been said, but my opinion about Akṣayānanda Swami is that he is a first-class devotee.

Prabhupāda: That I know. Therefore I am keeping him. He is not qualified manager, but he is first-class devotee, and he has no visa problem.

Guru dāsa: And he also is not duplicitous.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore he has got some special qualification. So managerial, it is not always possible. But these things required. We want one man that he has no visa problem, and at the same time devotee.

Guru dāsa: Yes. I went to the visa department. I just thought I should go. And I spoke to one man there. And I said, “Why is that we always have to spend five or six lakhs going and coming for no use? We are doing such good work. We could put that five or six lakhs into India.” He said, “What can I do? I am under the law also.” I said, “The law is needing some change.” He said, “Your organization already changes the law.” [laughing] He said, “You never follow the rules.” So I said, “That is indicative that the law is not good.” So then he said, “Let us see after the election.” Anyway, I spoke to him that this is useless, that we spend five or six lakhs every year going and coming for no need.

Bhavānanda: We don’t stay out. They tell us to leave—we leave; one week later we’re back.

Guru dāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Everywhere they are doing this. [Sanskrit] The world is misled in this way by bad leaders. We are trying to get the best[?].

Guru dāsa: So I don’t want to take your precious time too much.

Prabhupāda: No. Come on, take it, take some precious time. Take some. Bring some money. [laughter] That is also precious.

Guru dāsa: I shall do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You told the American GBC that you don’t mind getting their letters of management when they are sending you one thousand dollars a day. You’ll take the headache for that much.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, our movement is sublime, our position is also sublime. Kṛṣṇa is supplying everything what we need. We have got sublime books, philosophy. Now you arrange meetings of the scientist everywhere. We are, our party, Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara and others, they will go and speak something.

Guru dāsa: So I can do that in the Communist countries also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everywhere.

Guru dāsa: I’ll do it.

Prabhupāda: Science is for everyone. There is no such thing as Communist science. “Two plus two equal to four,” that is both for the Communist and capitalist. That’s a fact. Because I am Communist, I cannot say “Two plus two equal to five.” It is four. So science means fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That theatrical group will also be popular in Communist countries. That drama group will also be popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, drama group also. That is from artistic side. And from scientific side. And gradually we are making Bombay as the headquarters. So occasionally you come and go, and if possible tackle these men and find money to be spent.

Guru dāsa: Yes, visa.

Prabhupāda: We are doing with so many temples. That is Indian property.

Guru dāsa: Yes. Now I think I should go and see a bigger man than him.

Prabhupāda: At least give permanent residence for one hundred men. Then we can manage.

Guru dāsa: Yes. It is a waste of our time. Anyway, Indira is gone, so that will help.

Prabhupāda: Mahā-pāpī. But one pāpī replaced by another pāpī. Yes. If they take our advice, then it can be…

Guru dāsa: So your health appears all right to me.

Prabhupāda: I think due to Bhavānanda Mahārāja. He is taking care.

Guru dāsa: Then he should always be with you.

Prabhupāda: I have no objection. He is good preacher in Bengal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is famous as an avatāra there. [laughter] They say that there is three avatāras of the age. One newspaper reporter reported that there are three avatāras of this age. First one is…

Bhavānanda: Mao Tse Tung of China,

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mao Tse Tung of China. And who was the second?

Bhavānanda: Satya Sai Baba from the South.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Bhavānanda Goswami of Māyāpur. [laughter]

Bhavānanda: [laughing] I was an avatāra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And I have seen practically, even if they don’t regard him as an avatāra, I was amazed, Prabhupāda, that people come and they ask, “Where’s Bhavānanda Goswami?” And they look everywhere for him, and then they all bow down. He is famous. Simply because he performed strict cātur-māsya, so many people took notice.

Guru dāsa: He has descended to give you massage. [laughter]

Bhavānanda: [massaging Śrīla Prabhupāda] Now I think this side is no longer sore. This side.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Striking on the bone, so for an old man striking on the bone is very harmful.

Guru dāsa: Everybody sends their well-wishes to you, in Vṛndāvana and everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Guru dāsa: They all pray for you. They are all well-wishing. When they heard you were going to Manipur, one man said, “Manipur is saved.” He said that.

Prabhupāda: Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, that is saved. So when you are returning?

Guru dāsa: I will be leaving here tomorrow. Then I am going to Delhi to get visa from India side to Poland, because it is better. And then I’ll go. So… [offers obeisances to Śrīla Prabhupāda] Thank you very much. [break]

Gargamuni: …from one very important Hindi scholar, and he is Dr. V. P. Singh, M.A. Hindi, M.A. Sanskrit, Ph.D. literature, and he’s the senior professor and head of the department of Hindi, and Dean of Faculty of Arts of Benares Hindi University at Varanasi. So he writes about your Hindi Bhāgavatam, which has just come out: “It gives me great pleasure to review these publications of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Especially I am appreciating this Hindi edition of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, complete with original Sanskrit text, word-for-word synonyms and a marvelously lucid Hindi translation. In addition, having read thorough portions of the purports, which in my opinion reflect the vast erudition of the genius of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, I am discovering an unequaled body of literature in terms of scholastic quality and devotional impact both. The real meaning of such bhakti literature can only be disclosed by one who is a truly devotee and a saint. The evidence of these qualities in Swami Bhaktivedanta are highly apparent because of his great dedication and success in spreading the message of the Bhāgavata all over the world, and creating thousands of foreign bhaktas who aptly deserve the title of Vaiṣṇava brāhmaṇa, due to their strict practice, devotion and learning.”

Prabhupāda: Ah, very good.

Gargamuni: “I am very proud to have the acquaintance of such a saintly devotees of ISKCON, who have such an addition of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in our library. I have also…”

Prabhupāda: So you will get order anywhere if you present this.

Gargamuni: Yes. “I have also found the Hindi book Īśopaniṣad to be of excellent quality. I am hoping that every sincere seeker of truth and higher knowledge will find repose in the books of Swami Bhaktivedanta.” Signed, V. P. Singh, Professor and Head of the Department of Hindi, Benares Hindu University.

Prabhupāda: It is a very important document. It is written nicely.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: And print it. Wherever you go, you’ll get order.

Gargamuni: Yes. Especially now the new prime minister is emphasizing Hindi literature and the study of the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: And send him one copy.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Request him that “Introduce this Hindi Bhāgavatam to all government officers.”

Gargamuni: One of our parties have just returned, and they have secured many new orders from factories, Rourkela Steel Factory in Rourkela.

Prabhupāda: In Hindi?

Gargamuni: No, Hindi they did not have. They did not have any sample copies. This was done by another party who were in U.P.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Girirāja: I spoke to Mr. Rajda on the telephone this morning. So he has already spoken to the prime minister about your meeting, and the prime minister gladly accepted.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: So he told him that you weren’t able to come to Delhi now. So I told him that he should again speak to him that when he comes to Bombay, he can meet you here. So Mr. Rajda said that there is no difficulty in arranging that, and that he would speak to the prime minister today.

Prabhupāda: He wants me to meet there in Delhi.

Girirāja: No. He is going to arrange for the prime minister to meet you here in Bombay.

Gargamuni: When he comes here.

Girirāja: At Juhu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At Juhu?

Prabhupāda: Immediately one copy send to Mr. Rajda.

Girirāja: Now Mr. Rajda is coming tomorrow for one day.

Prabhupāda: So let him meet me, appoint him, give him some time. Invite him for prasādam. With his associates.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With his associates.

Girirāja: He is coming in the morning and leaving in the evening.

Prabhupāda: So daytime he can take…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lunch prasādam.

Girirāja: Well, see he’s coming because he is a leader in the municipal corporation, and tomorrow they are electing the new mayor. So I was thinking that probably on the way to the airport in the evening we could invite him to stop here.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: Otherwise, he is coming back on the 8th to spend about a week here.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: But he is very enthusiastic.

Prabhupāda: Very good. He is a good boy.

Girirāja: He said, “I am all out for this movement. I am all out for Swami Prabhupāda.”

Prabhupāda: Send him this remark from the chief minister. He’ll so much appreciate.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is appreciating this movement. Gradually, they will appreciate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we saved twenty-five copies of that Times of India article about the court case in New York. Is there something you want done with those twenty-five articles?

Prabhupāda: Some of them should be sent to the municipal chairman, Vṛndāvana.

Gargamuni: They should be used by our preachers, ‘cause many times we have met persons who have said, “Oh, I hear you have been thrown out of America.” A lot of people say that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can give you a few.

Gargamuni: So they should be used to show, “No, we are bona fide religion.”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But also they can be sent to the people who you got help from, Prabhupāda. I think you got help from some people in Vṛndāvana, like that municipal…

Gargamuni: The man who gave the letters.

Prabhupāda: That I say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the people who gave letters…

Gargamuni: Say “It’s due to your letters that…”

Girirāja: I am making a block that will reproduce exactly the article as it appeared in the paper that had the…

Gargamuni: Send it as a thank-you note to the people who sent the letters.

Girirāja: Yes, I am going to. I am going to send it to all the members.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about to other people around India who we don’t have their names? We could have Ādi-keśa do that. He should actually do it.

Girirāja: Yeah. Because Prabhupāda said that it should be sent to all the parents of devotees. We could send one original to Rāmeśvara and Ādi-keśava…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Ādi-keśa Mahārāja has at least a couple of hundred letters from people in groups in India, from Vṛndāvana, all over the country. I think I could send him a copy of this article and he could send a thank-you letter along with this article to each of them, thanking them for their help. They appreciate it, coming from America, that the president of the New York center himself wrote them.

Gargamuni: I just returned from Calcutta, and they are expecting you to arrive tomorrow morning by plane.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: In Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gargamuni: Because they said that when you left Calcutta that you would come back within two weeks, on April 4th, to Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Well, because I was going to Manipur.

Gargamuni: So I told them that as far as I know there was no plan of Your Divine Grace…

Prabhupāda: No, because Manipur people has not supplied. Otherwise, it was program that I shall come back, and after I shall go to Manipur.

Gargamuni: And Upendra is there, so I told him that he should come. Jayapatākā said that the government has approved in principle of the land acquisitions. They would acquire land slowly.

Prabhupāda: That doesn’t matter.

Gargamuni: Not all at once. But they would acquire this land, and if they see it’s being used nicely, then they will give another…

Prabhupāda: That doesn’t matter.

Gargamuni: He said he’ll be sending you a letter.

Prabhupāda: This is a great, nice. Very… Activities are nice.

Gargamuni: It’s auspicious because this book has just come out, and already there is great appreciation.

Prabhupāda: Those who are after Hindi, read. These professional Bhāgavata reader, what do they know about Bhāgavata? Rāsa-līlā, that’s all. Kṛṣṇa is kissing Rādhārāṇī. Bās. That’s all. And people take it that it is a sex literature. Vivekananda has said. This rascal Vivekananda has said that Vaiṣṇava religion is sexism, because they see sahajiyās in Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa. Whole thing was spoiled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now they are finished. They actually never even began. The whole thing was a fake.

Prabhupāda: Whole Vṛndāvana is compact of sahajiyās. They’ll… Our temple is there now. Here, this certification may be printed in a block letter, and you can…, kept in our entrance of Vṛndāvana temple. People will read it. Is it not good?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Gargamuni: They can make it in a marble. A block marble. Hang it up.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the judgment of high court, that should be also printed.

Gargamuni: The chief justice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the judgment from New York.

Gargamuni: Yes. “A bona fide religion.”

Prabhupāda: And respectable gentlemen will understand what is this temple. It is not this ordinary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hyderabad they can do the same. [aside:] So you are going to get copies made and make a block?

Gargamuni: Oh, yeah, I am going to send a man down today.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Make a block.

Gargamuni: Yeah, for printing. You mean… What kind of a block?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A printing block.

Gargamuni: A printing block, because I am going to send these to all our colleges.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will you give me a few copies? Send it to the temple to me.

Prabhupāda: So how many copies you have printed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of Hindi Bhāgavatam, how many copies do you have?

Prabhupāda: You have to print more copies, at least fifty thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are going to sell very quickly I think.

Gargamuni: Gopāla has only made soft cover, but the libraries won’t take soft cover, so I have asked him to make hardbound also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in America, whatever we make, we always make hardbound for the libraries.

Gargamuni: Yeah, you have to. They won’t take softbound.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America everything we print, we also have to consider special printings for the libraries and standing orders.

Gargamuni: The man at the Sampurnanand Sanskrit Library at BHU, when he saw the Hindi Bhāgavatam, he said, “I will order fifty sets for our various sub-libraries.” He said, “This is wonderful.” Because the only Hindi Bhāgavatam is that Gītā Press, which is useless. There is no commentary, it is so unattractive.

Prabhupāda: Prepared by nondevotees. How you can expect? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. Without being devotee, who will understand Bhāgavatam? It is not so easy. Big, big paṇḍitas, they cannot understand Bhāgavatam even.

Gargamuni: In BHU all the scholars had great eagerness for this Bhāgavatam Hindi, because it is the only one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Never been done before, huh?

Gargamuni: No, there is only Gītā Press.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very surprising.

Gargamuni: That’s all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But what about in Bengali? There must be…

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is rubbish. They do not know what is Bhāgavata. How they will translate? Professional translation is not… Bhāgavata-pado giya bhāgavata sthāne.[?] “Whose life is Bhāgavata, go there and read Bhāgavata.” That is the recommendation. That is the order of Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī. Ordinary men, what they will understand, Bhāgavata? Bhāgavata is not for ordinary men. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavam vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. In the beginning it is said unless one is paramahaṁsa, he cannot understand. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām.

Guru dāsa: Yes. Tapomaya has taken the boat out.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Guru dāsa: Tapomaya has taken the boat out.

Prabhupāda: The boat?

Guru dāsa: The boat in Bengal, the boat program.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that’s nice.

Gargamuni: But Jayapatākā is asking for Bhavānanda to come and give extra inspiration.

Prabhupāda: So Bhavānanda can go. For my bodily comforts, preaching should not suffer. This can be done somebody else. Preaching is our first program.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have decided last night that when Upendra comes… We sent them a telegram. I’ll train him up for a few days and then…

Prabhupāda: That’s all, that’s all. That will be very nice. So call him. You are now popular in Bengal, avatāra. [laughter]

Gargamuni: That’s common in Bengal. I was seeing in Bangladesh many men were bringing this pamphlet saying, “Oh, this man is the incarnation of Nitāi and Gaura.” “This man is the incarnation of…”

Prabhupāda: Very good. Keep that position. When you meet them, “No, no, I am servant of Nitāi-Gaura.”

Gargamuni: No, that wasn’t referring to myself. They were bringing pamphlets of others.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: I was trying to point out that it is common to set up some avatāra, some man as avatāra. They also called us Gaura-Nitāi in Bangladesh, myself and Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa, because they never saw white sādhus before in their lives. And because of our light complexion, they referred us to as Gaura-Nitāi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So ask Upendra to come. Let him be trained up.

Bhavānanda: Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha is going to put some of your lectures in English script Bengali so I can give lectures. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They will be very eager to hear from you Bengali. Yes. Now Kṛṣṇa is giving us so much opportunities. Utilize it. And be steady in your character, in your behavior, in our regulative principles. Then the spiritual strength will be there, and it will be [indistinct]. There is no doubt. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe nāma-pracāra. You must draw the spiritual śakti. That is unlimited. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam [Bg. 10.10]. Immediately, He can make everything possible.

Girirāja: Mr. Rajda also mentioned that he wanted to visit the Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Give him good reception.

Girirāja: Actually, I was thinking, after he comes on the 8th, he is going back again on the 14th.

Prabhupāda: Immediately inform Vṛndāvana, our Akṣayānanda, that this man should be very well received.

Girirāja: I was thinking that unless I go and bring him, he might be too busy with the political affairs.

Prabhupāda: So what you are to go? Where you want to go?

Girirāja: Well, what I was thinking, if you agree, is to go to Delhi for a few days, and he could introduce me to the pious members of Parliament, and then we could organize a whole group, and I could bring them there.

Prabhupāda: Do the needful. Go. At least, in India, there must be this spiritual institution. The whole world may take advantage of it. What is this cats’ and dogs’ race civilization? Is that civilization? Here is civilization, Bhagavad-gītā. Basic principles of civilization. So India should maintain this. People may… There are so many big universities. A student may go or may not go, but the university must be maintained. Because there is no student, therefore university closed—no. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness institution must be maintained for the benefit of the whole world. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. They do not know how nature’s law is working. [pause]

Gargamuni: These breezes are very nice here, better than, I think, in Māyāpur. Many breezes.

Prabhupāda: The sea breeze.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It’s not so cool on the lower floors—where you are staying in the office.

Gargamuni: There no; it is hot. This is very good.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In those houses where you were formerly staying, it is not so like this at all.

Prabhupāda: Which house?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your old quarters. You don’t get the advantage of the breeze.

Prabhupāda: No. Sometimes there is nasty breezes coming.

Gargamuni: That still comes. Every morning at six o’clock we wait for that. Guru dāsa was thinking of writing letters to the Municipality, signing it in foreign names, that “I am a tourist staying in a hotel, and this smell is coming. Something should be done.” Because they should have a pipe back there instead of a river. One of those big round pipes.

Prabhupāda: They must doing something.

Gargamuni: The thunder showers have started in Bengal now. So it is not so hot when I was there.

Prabhupāda: Kala-vaise.[?] [devotees discuss weather] So get a bank immediately here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I’ll do that first thing in the morning. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Gargamuni: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [devotees offer obeisances]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, do you think that you’ll be lecturing this evening? I mean, are people going to be here or at the paṇḍāl?

Girirāja: I think most people will be at the paṇḍāl today. Maybe we could send out invitations and make publicity for next Sunday.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be a big thing, prominent. [end]

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