Prabhupāda: [Conversing in Hindi]
munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo ‘haṁ
By the sages in Naimiṣāraṇya, the question was put before Sūta Gosvāmī that “After Kṛṣṇa’s departure from this world to His own abode, where the responsibility was given for religious propaganda?” So it was kṛṣṇa-sampraśno, question about Kṛṣṇa. And the question was that religious principle, where did it rest? Because religion means the law of God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam. As you cannot manufacture law at home… The law is enunciated in the legislative assembly of the government, not that you can manufacture law in your home or in your office or in a big conference by the public. No. Similarly, the word dharma, “religion,” is explained in the English dictionary, “a sect of faith.” And people have interpreted in a different way, that “I can manufacture my own way of religion.” It is going on very strong nowadays by some missionary sect, yata mat tata pat: “As many ways there are, they are all perfect.” That somebody said, that “To cut throat is my religion,” that is also accepted. But that is not religion. Religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam . What is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead or what is ordained by the supreme authority, that is dharma.
Therefore in the next verse it is explained,
sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
If you want actual peace, ātmā, suprasīdati, then you have to accept paro dharma. Para means supreme or superior. There are two kinds of dharmas: parā and aparā. Aparā means this material world. Bhūmir āpo ‘nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca. There are two natures: one spiritual nature and one material nature. People do not understand what is spiritual nature. But Kṛṣṇa explains very nicely, and one can understand very easily what is spiritual nature and what is material nature. In the Bhagavad-gītā, the matter, five elements—earth, water, air, fire, sky, mind, intelligence, ego—these are material nature. Prakṛti me bhinnā aṣṭadhā. Apareyam. Then Kṛṣṇa says this is aparā. Aparā means inferior. Bhūmir āpo ‘nalo vāyuḥ. The modern scientist or philosophers, they are engaged in studying this inferior nature. They have no information of the superior nature. But Kṛṣṇa says that these five elements…, eight elements: five gross and three subtle. The mind is also material. Khaṁ mano buddhir. These are material. People think this mental speculation, poetry, philosophy, that is spiritual. No. So long the subject matter is material, the concoction of the mind, speculation of the mind, the so-called philosophy, is also material.
When mind is engaged at the lotus feet of the Lord… As it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bha…, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor. When the mind is fixed up in the lotus feet of the Lord, then the words are used, the vibration of the tongue used… Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Then the words are utilized for describing about the spiritual world. The spiritual world is called Vaikuṇṭha. There is no kuṇṭha, anxiety. That is spiritual world. When you become spiritualized, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā , there is no more kuṇṭha. This is the sign of becoming brahma-bhūtaḥ. At the present moment we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. Manaḥ saṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati . Therefore our struggle for existence is with the mind and the six senses. But when your existence is spiritualized, then brahma-bhūtaḥ, you have no more anxieties. That is the sign. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na… Prasannātmā means na śocati na kāṅkṣati .
We have got two diseases in the material world. One is śocati and the other is kāṅkṣati. The things which we haven’t got, we desire to possess, kāṅkṣati. And the things which we possess, it will be spoiled, it will be lost. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that everything in this material world is temporary: smaro nityam anityatam. So when we engage our mind in these temporary things, that is śocana and akāṅkṣa. And when we are elevated to the spiritual platform, then there is no more śocana and akāṅkṣa. This is the symptom. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. At that time it is possible to re-establish samatā. We are very much anxious to re-establish our universal brotherhood, but from the material platform it is not possible. Unless we come to the platform of brahma-bhūtaḥ, we cannot expect samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ . These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā.
So considering from all these point of view, Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He’s teaching us that paro dharmaḥ. We have distinguished parā and aparā. Apareyam. The material elements—mind, intelligence and ego—they are all material, aparā. Itas tv viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām jīva-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. So we have to come to that spiritual platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ platform, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. That is wanted. That kind of religious system is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: paro dharmo. And others, they are aparo dharma. Aparā, inferior. Therefore one Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura, a great Vaiṣṇava ācārya, he has said that,
pṛthivīte yahā kichu dharma nāme cale
bhāgavata kahe taha pari purṇa chole
Pṛthivīte, upon the surface of the earth, there are many system of religion. Yahā kichu dharma nāme chole. So what is that? Bhāgavata kahe. He does not say, but he says on the authority of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is scholarship. A scholar will not speak anything as he is thinking. No. He will give authoritative quotation to support. That is Vedic system. When you support your proposition with the Vedic version, then it is accepted. Otherwise not. Veda pramāṇa.
So Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura said bhāgavata kahe. He doesn’t say “In my opinion.” Nowadays it has become a very good fashion, “I think,” “In my opinion.” Without knowing his own value, he gives his opinion. He does not know that he’s imperfect. He’s imperfect in his senses, he’s liable to commit mistake, he’s illusioned, and he’s a cheater. Everyone knows that “How I am cheating the other party.” Especially amongst businessmen, when there is conference, so each one is trying, “Now how much I have cheated him.” So this cheating, vipralipsā, is one of the qualification of the conditioned soul. Bhrama pramāda vipralipsā karaṇāpāṭava. So a person, authorized person in the line of disciplic succession, he does not speak by his own authority. Immediately he’ll quote from the Vedic literature to support his proposition. So Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura says bhāgavata kahe. He doesn’t say that “I say,” or “In my opinion.” No. Bhāgavata kahe taha pari purṇa chole.
pṛthivīte yahā kichu dharma nāme cale
bhāgavata kahe taha pari purṇa chole
So how is that Bhāgavata says? The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you’ll find, in the introductory portion, Vyāsadeva says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo ‘tra. Atra, śrīmad-bhāgavate, kaitavo dharma, projjhita. Kaitava means cheating. Cheating type of religion is completely kicked out. Projjhita. Prakṛṣṭha rūpena ujjhita. Just like we sweep over the floor and throw away the dust just to make the floor very clean. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, just to make it very clean from this cheating type of religious system… It is written by Vyāsadeva, religion means that yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. This is religion. Here it is said. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje . It doesn’t matter whether you are Hindu or Musselman or Christian or Buddha or Jaini or so on, so on—there are so many, hundreds—but the test is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, whether you have developed your love for God. That is wanted. It doesn’t matter.
Just like if you want to be a mathematician, so you may pass from any university—Calcutta University or Delhi University or London University—any university. Mathematics, “Two plus two equal to four,” everywhere. It is not that in Calcutta University two plus two equal to five, and in London University two plus equal to three. No. Everywhere two plus two equal to five…, four. Similarly, dharma means obedience to the laws of God. That is dharma. Either you become Christian or Hindu or Muslim, whether you accept God as the supreme authority and whether you abide by the laws of God, then you are dharmic. Otherwise, it is cheating. If there is no conception of God, if one does not know what is God and what is the order of God, then that type of religion is cheating religion and that kind of religion is completely thrown out from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura said, pṛthivīte āche yata…, pṛthivīte yahā kichu dharma nāme cale. Cale means it is passing on in the name of religion but it is not religion. Because religion without conception of God, what is the meaning of that religion? If that is religion, that is not parā dharma. That is aparā dharma. Aparā dharma. Just like sometimes we take deśa-dharma, samāja-dharma, gṛha-dharma, and so many things.
So deśa-dharma, nationalism. So now you are in this country, suppose in India, and next life, because you have to change your body, next life it may not be that you have taken birth in India. You might have taken birth in the heavenly planet or in the animal society. Because there is no guarantee. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir. Death means change of the body. But what kind of body you are going to accept, that will depend on the superior arrangement. But you can arrange also. Just like if you pass medical examination, there is possibility of your becoming a medical officer to get a service in the government medical service board, but still, it must be selected by the medical board and so on, so on. There are so many condition. Similarly, to get the next body, that is not your selection. That selection depends on superior authority. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye . That we do not know, that next life. Neither we endeavor what is next life. We have to accept a next life after giving up this body. Therefore we must be prepared for that purpose.
So preparation means… In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān. If you prepare yourself to go to the higher planetary system, Candraloka, Sūryaloka, Indraloka, Svargaloka, Brahmaloka, Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapoloka—there are so many, hundreds. If you want to go there, then you prepare in that way. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. So if you want to go to the Pitṛloka, you can go there. If you want to go to the higher planetary system, in the Devaloka, you can go there. And if you want to remain here, you can remain here. And if you want to go to the loka, Goloka, Vṛndāvana, mad-yājino ‘pi yānti mām , you can go there, back to home, back to Godhead. That is possible. Kṛṣṇa says tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti . If you like you can go back to home, back to God. That is possible. So therefore the intelligent persons, they must know, “If I go to the Devaloka, what is the result of going there. If I go to the Pitṛloka, what is the result. If I remain here, what is the result. And if I go back to home, back to God, what is the result.” The ultimate result is that if you can go back to home, back to Godhead, then Kṛṣṇa says what is the result. The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti , that you don’t get birth again in this material world.
So that is the highest gain. Punar janma naiti mām eti.
mām upetya kaunteya
saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
That is the highest perfection. And therefore here it is said, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. So if you want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. You have to adopt this means, bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ . Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, cannot be understood by karma, jñāna, yoga. No process will be sufficient to understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you have to take to this process as recommended by Kṛṣṇa, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaśs cāsmi tattvataḥ . Therefore we do not indulge in Kṛṣṇa’s līlā unless it is performed or it is executed by the devotees. Not professional men. That is forbidden. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never indulged in. Because the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa can be understood only by the process of bhakti. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje . Without bhakti, it is not possible. The bhakti process one has to adopt if he actually wants to go back home, back to Godhead. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Our movement, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is educating people how to become advanced in devotional service and how to go back home, back to Godhead. And this is not a very difficult task. It is very easy. If it is not easy, how the Europeans, Americans are now taking seriously? Because they, I think at least before ten years, before the starting of this movement, most of them, they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Now they are all devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Even the Christian priests, they are surprised. In Boston, one Christian priest, he admitted that “These boys, they are our boys, coming from the Christian group or the Jewish group. So before this movement they did not take care even to see us or to ask any question about God or to come to the church. They completely neglected. And now, how it is they are mad after God?” They are surprised. “Why? Why have they become so…?” Because they have taken to the process. The process is important. Simply speculation… Bhakti is not theoretical. It is practical. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. If you want to take to the bhakti process, it is not speculation. You must actually engage yourself in the process. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje.
That process is,
śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
This is nine different… [break] Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir [SB 10.14.3]. Simply by hearing. You remain in your place; there is no need of changing your place. If you are businessman, do your business. If you are a medical man, remain in your medical profession—or lawyer, or whatever it may be. That is the recommendation of Brahmā and confirmed by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir. If we hear, śruti-gatām, if we receive the message of bhakti, then you can remain in your place. But if you hear and try to implement it, employ it in practical life, then one day the Supreme Lord, whose another name is Ajita, you’ll be able to conquer Him. Jito ‘py asi. These are the recommendation in the śāstra. So this is first-class or superior dharma. Everyone can accept it. Simply hear. And that hearing process is also made very easy. This chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, you chant and hear. Anywhere you can do it. You sit down in your home or in your office, in your factory, underneath a tree or anywhere, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And you can hear. This process will make you advanced in everything. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given His benediction, ihā haite sarva siddhi hoibe tomāra [CB Madhya-khaṇḍa 23.078]. By…, simply by this chanting and hearing of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, all perfection you’ll get. It’s very easy.
Therefore our request is that whatever you may be, in whatever position you may be, it doesn’t matter. Sthāne sthitāḥ. Just sit down together, the family members, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is very easy. Nobody can say it is very difficult. And if it is difficult to chant, then it should be understood that we are most unfortunate. Etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavan mamāpi durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ [Śikṣāṣṭaka 2]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught that nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. The Lord’s holy name is as powerful as the Lord Himself. Na ‘bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ [Padma Purāṇa, quoted in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.108]. This is the śāstric injunction. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa name and the Kṛṣṇa person, because Kṛṣṇa is absolute, advaya-tattva, advaya-jñāna. So He has descended in this age, kali rūpe kṛṣ…, kali yuge nāma rūpe kṛṣṇa-avatāra. This nāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, is the sound incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Don’t think it is ordinary sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, golokera prema-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāy. This sound vibration is coming… This is transcendental sound. It is coming from Goloka Vṛndāvana. It is not this mundane sound. Just like in radio you receive sound from other places, similarly, this sound is received, I mean to say, released from the Vaikuṇṭha. Golokera prema-dhana.
So the sound vibration, Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives it to the people in general. He says that the name, holy name, is as powerful as Kṛṣṇa. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. And to smaraṇe, to hear and chant, there is no particular time. Just like gāyatrī-mantra and other things you have to chant in a different atmosphere, three times, tri-sandha, after taking bath. There are so many rules and regulations. But this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra you can chant anywhere and everywhere, at any time, without any regulative principles. Niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu regrets, etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavan mamāpi: “My Lord, You are so merciful upon Me, but still,” durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ, “I am so unfortunate that I am reluctant to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.” So our this movement is teaching very simple thing, that whatever you may be, wherever you may be, there is no expenditure; there is no loss—you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our movement.
So the ladies and gentlemen who are present here, kindly take this instruction of the śāstra. Then you become situated in the transcendental, first-class system of religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje ahaituky apratihatā. Ahaituki. But don’t chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra with any motive. That is not good. Even if you chant with motive, that will take little time to become pure devotee; but better without any motive. As a matter of duty, you chant regularly, ahaituky apratihatā. Then there will be no hindrances. You’ll make progress without any hindrances. Ahaituky apratihatā. And then you’ll be pleased. Yenātmā samprasīdati. Then you’ll be feeling transcendental bliss. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni : and all the blazing fire of this material world will be extinguished, bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. Here, in this material world, it is compared with dāvāgni. Dāvāgni means the forest fire. Nobody goes to set fire in the forest, but it takes place. Similarly, however cautious you may be, you cannot make this material world without dāvāgni. That is not possible. The dāvāgni will continue. Viṣaya viṣānale, divā-niśi hiyā jvale. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung that the material world is such that it is just like a blazing fire, viṣaya viṣānale divā-niśi. Here, everyone, even the Prime Minister, even the President, very opulently situated, but always full of anxieties. Very…, too much anxieties.
So if you want to be yayātmā samprasīdati, then you must take to this process, this bhakti-yogaṁ: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. There are so many different items. And the most important item is śravaṇam. We can sit down, family members, and we can read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, and hear and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Very easy thing. That we want to introduce every home. That is our only request, that in whichever position you are, it doesn’t matter. You simply begin this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and reading of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Don’t try to be ustad in interpreting. That is very dangerous. Ustadi is not good. Simply try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Bhagavān says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya : “My dear Arjuna, there is no more superior authority than Me.” You accept it, that’s all. You haven’t got to interpret foolishly. No, then you are gone. Then you become condemned.
Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s mission is that. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa. He says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa. Ei deśa. Just like Surendra is here. So I’ll request… Dr. Sukla is here. It doesn’t matter that you have to go out. You are in Aligarh, you become a guru. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s… “How shall I become guru? I am gṛhastha, I’m engaged this…” No. You haven’t got to learn very much, to be puffed-up. Yāre dekha tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa . That’s all. You simply decide what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. Then you become guru. If you want to manufacture something and show some magic, then you do not become guru. If you simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said… Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru , mam evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaṁ. What is the difficulty? You can say all the same thing: “Sir, you always think of Kṛṣṇa.” Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. You don’t say that “You think of me.” That is rascaldom. You say that “You think of Kṛṣṇa.” Kṛṣṇa says man-manā, but you don’t say man-manā; you say Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa said. “You always think of Kṛṣṇa.” Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. “You just become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You just worship Kṛṣṇa,” mad-yājī, “and just offer little obeisances to the Lord.” These four things. Even a child can do. And you can preach. You can become guru. What is the difficulty? Everyone.
āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa
yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa
You become a guru. Don’t manufacture ideas. Yenātmā samprasīdati.
So is there any difficulty? No difficulty. The Bhagavad-gītā explains everything very nicely, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, how to worship Kṛṣṇa, how to understand Kṛṣṇa. Everything explained there very lucidly. So people can take it very easily, and then he will be perfect. Then he’ll not come… Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. It is very easy. So take it very seriously. That is our propaganda. We don’t manufacture anything, any jugglery of words, any magic or any new ideas of God. These nonsense things we do not do. We simply carry out the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and we simply repeat ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa. That’s all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You can take it and also you can do it. You can also become guru. That we want.
Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] Any question? If there is any question, you can put.
Surendra Kumar Saigal: [Hindi]
Indian man (2): Adhokṣaja, I want to…
Prabhupāda: Hmm, Adhokṣaja. Akṣaja. A-i-e-oo—then at the end, kṣaya. So beginning from ah and kṣaya, up to the end of kṣaya, akṣa. So we manufacture…
Surendra Kumar Saigal: Mahārāja, [Hindi—asks Prabhupāda to speak in Hindi]
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. [Hindi] [end]