# Room Conversation with Gurukula Teachers — July 30, 1975, Dallas 750730R1-Dallas [No Audio] **Note:** Śrīla Prabhupāda met with the gurukula teachers in the last week of July of 1975 in Dallas, Texas. We had a lengthy meeting in which Prabhupāda covered a range of topics ranging from the ultimate goal of teaching, to the instructions of Prahlāda Mahārāja in the 7th Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about gurukula, to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, to false Vedāntists. I don't know what happened to the original tape, but this transcript was reviewed by Dayānanda Prabhu just after it was recorded for the accuracy of the Sanskrit and general content, listening very carefully to the tape. We both carefully proofread the English, and I can vouch for its accuracy and authenticity. —Rūpa Vilāsa **Prabhupāda:**So,whatareyouteaching? **Dayānanda:** Someoftheteachersareacademicteachers;theyteachintheclassroom,andsomearecaringforthe children in the *āśrama*, caring for their needs, helping themgetreadyfor*maṅgala-ārati*andtakingcare... **Prabhupāda:** So, what is the ultimate goal of teaching? **Dayānanda:**Serviceto Kṛṣṇa. **Prabhupāda:**Hmm? **Dayānanda:**Nine-foldprocess,serviceto Kṛṣṇa. Maṇḍeleśvara:Fourthings:**man-manā*...alwaysthinkof Kṛṣṇa. **Prabhupāda:** WhyshouldonewanttobecomeKṛṣṇa conscious? One can say that I can become materially conscious.WhyshouldIbecomeKṛṣṇaconscious? **Jagadīśa:** In the *Vedānta-sūtra*, the statement is given *athātobrahma-jijñāsā*, thatthehumanlifeismeant for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. **Prabhupāda:**Thatisallright,but*why*isitnecessary tobecomeKṛṣṇa conscious? **Jagadīśa:**Iamnotthisbody;Iamspiritsoul.Thesoulis eternal. **Prabhupāda:**That'sallright,thesouliseternal—thatisoneoftheimportantthings.Kṛṣṇaconsciousness isrequiredbecausethesouliseternal,butyourbodyis noteternal.So,inordertogetridofthisrepetition of birth and death, therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness. To conquer over the repetition of birth and death, and "teacher"meansonewhocaneducatethestudenttothis understandingorthisplatformthatthereisnomorebirth anddeath. Thenitisperfectteaching.Thewholethingis how to stop. Nobody wants to die, but he has no educationhowtobecomefreefromthepunishment of death.Thatiswhatnobodyhaseducationof.Andnobody wantstodie,that'safact.SoKṛṣṇaconsciousnessmeans to stop this nuisance business, repetition of birth and death. Therefore,itiscompulsory,ifoneisactuallyeager.Itis afactthatnobodywantstodie,buthedoesnotknow. Evenbig,bigscientists—theydiscoversomanywonderful things, but they could not discover anything that he [they]willalsonotdie.Allbig,bigscientists—theydie. Thatmeansweshallalsodie,butafterdeaththereisno more acceptance of this material body; that means no moredeath.Thisisthelastdeath,*tyaktvādehaṁ punar janmanaitimāmetiso'rjuna*. > tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma > naiti mām eti so 'rjuna > [[bg/4/9|[Bg. 4.9] ]] Weareteachingthatafterannihilationofthisbody,there isnomoreacceptanceofthismaterialbody.And,because thereisnomoreacceptanceofthematerialbody,there isnomoredeath.Thisisour...*janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi* [birth, death, old age, and disease] *[[bg/13/9|[Bg. 13.9] ]]. *That should be impresseduponthestudents,andtheteachersmustknow it. Then it will be successful. This is knowledge: that why should one be subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease? We do not want all these things. That is real science;thatisrealknowledge. So our students should be elevated to this knowledge. Andwearedescribinginourbookshowtounderstand this science. That is... [pause] One gentleman, he is alordinEngland,Lord Pennard Broker came to see me. So I asked, "What is your philosophyoflife?"Hesaid,"Well,I'mtryingtolivefully, that's all." But after death, he has no idea. That is the defect; nobody knows what is going to happen after death. These people are accusing us that: "What will happen after death, thinking like that, they are already dead, exceptthattheyarenotenjoyingthismaterial world." They criticize us, "You are thinking only of what will happen after death, and you are not taking advantage whileyouareliving."Dotheynotsaylikethat?Weare alsoliving, but we are living notlikeirresponsiblemen.Our livingmayseemtobedifferentfromotherswhoareliving irresponsibly. **Jagadīśa:** Srila Prabhupāda, we were wondering whether there was any information in *Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam* about *gurukula*. **Prabhupāda:** Yes. **Jagadīśa:** Dayānanda Prabhu was mentioning that some things are in the seventh chapter, seventh canto... **Prabhupāda:** Seventh canto. You have got? Seventh canto? Yes. So, you want it to be published first? No. [laughter] What do you want? I shall explain, no? **Dayānanda:** That's all right. We are eager to hear. **Prabhupāda:**Hereisthefirst[verse]: > nāradauvāca > brahmacārī guru-kule > vasan dānto guror hitam > ācaran dāsavan nīco > gurau suḍṛdha-sauhṛdaḥ > [[sb/7/12/1|[SB. 7.12.1] ]] *Brahmacārī*should be in *gurukula*. *Dāntaḥ*, controlling the senses. *Vasan* dāntaḥand*guror-hitam*forthebenefitoftheguru, not fortheirpersonalbenefit.*Ācaran*and*dāsa-vat*,actingjustlikeaservant,themasterordersandtheservantcarries outtheorder. *Dāsa-vatnīcaḥ*,althoughhemaycomefromaveryaristocraticfamily,*brāhmaṇa*family,stillheshould accept the position of a menial servant. *Nīcaḥ brahmacārī*...*nīcaḥ*meanshumble.Notthat,"Oh,the spiritualmasterisorderingmetodothisthingwhichis notsuitableformyposition."No,weshouldbehumble, thatmyspiritualmasterormyteacherhasaskedmeto do this, this consciousness should be there, not challenging. So, *brahmacārī guru-kule vasan*...*vasan* means residing; *dāntaḥ*,veryself-controlled.*Guror-hitam*,forthebenefit of the guru, not for his personal benefit, *guror-hitam,* *ācaran*,practicingorbehaving.*Ācarandāsa-vat*,justlikeservant,menialservant.*Nīcaḥ*...humble.*Gurausudṛḍha,gurausudṛḍha-sauhṛdaḥ.[[sb/7/12/1|[SB. 7.12.1] ]] Thesethingsareacceptedoutofloveforthespiritualmaster.Justlikeyouareworking; Iamnotpayingyou,butwhyareyouworking?Outof your love for me. This is the basic principle. *Gurau sudṛḍha-sauhṛdaḥ*. *Sudṛḍha*...firm. One should be convincedthatmyspiritualmasterismybest friend, andtherefore,Imustrenderservicetohimonthisbasis. Theserviceyouarerendering,itisnotpossibletobe doneevenifIpaysomebody\$1,000permonth. Itisnotpossible,becauseitisoutoflove.Thereisno questionofpayment.So,thisisthebasicprinciple. > yasya deve parā bhaktir > yathā deve tathā gurau [Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.23] *Bhakti*... when one is fixed up in devotion to Kṛṣṇa and His representative guru, then everything becomes revealed automatically. *Tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ*. These are all revealed experience. These arethebasicprinciples,that*brahmacārīs*,especially,are undertheprotectionoftheguru.Heshouldbetaughtto become...thereisnoquestioninthebeginninghowmuch hehaslearnedABC,no. Thefirstthingisthere,thatone shouldliveinthe *gurukula*,practicesensecontrol.Thebasicprincipleshouldbethatwearelivinghereforthe benefit of the guru, not for my benefit. Therefore, whateverheorders,hedesires,we execute. **Jagadīśa:** Prabhupāda, this would indicate that the atmosphere here must be very strict. **Prabhupāda:**Notstrict,butitshouldbethere...itis on the basis of love. Stricture is not very good. They shoulddoitautomatically,outoflove.Thatiswanting. Superficially, there may be some stricture, but that is notaverygoodidea.Bysimplystricture,theywilltake it sadly. That is not good...Stricture, that materially there aresomanylawsandregulativeprinciplestodo;ifyou donot,you'llbepunished.Thatmaybe,buttheyshould developtheideaoflove.Thatis... **Jagadīśa:** Part of loving the children is forcing them to act according to our Kṛṣṇa conscious discipline. **Prabhupāda:** Forcingshouldnotbe ordinary. Sometimes superficially you have to do that, butthebasicprincipleshouldbelove. That force is not material force. In the material world also,sometimesthefatherforceshissontodosomething. Thatdoesnotmeanthefatheristheenemyoftheson. For the benefit of the son, sometimes he forces, sometimes he chastises. That is superficial. So that chastisement,orforce,isalsooutoflove. **Jagadīśa:** So we cannot be permissive with the children; otherwise, they will take advantage. **Prabhupāda:** No, no, that is all right. Ihavealready explained. Children, they are innocent. As you teach them,theylearn.Teachingmustbethere,disciplinemust be there, sometimes force must be applied. But everythingshouldbeonthebasisoflove.Thatrequires experience. **Dayānanda:** It seems that it would take some time to develop that, rather than immediately... **Prabhupāda:** Yes. Therulesandregulationswill teach him automatically. Just like this rising. Here it is said: > sāyaṁ prātar upāsīta > gurv-agny-arka-surottamān > ubhe sandhye ca yata-vāg > japan brahma samāhitaḥ > [[sb/7/12/2|[SB. 7.12.2] ]] Thisshouldbe takenup:**japa*,HareKṛṣṇamantraandearlyrising,then offering oblations, Deity worship. These things should bepracticed,thenautomaticallytheywilldevelop. **Jagadīśa:** Sometimes, unless we encourage them very strongly, they don't want to chant *japa*. **Prabhupāda:** You shouldpractice,"Now,sitdown!ChantHareKṛṣṇa!Hare Kṛṣṇa!"Youshouldchant;theywillchant.Youshould behaveyourselfverystrictlyondiscipline,andtheywill follow. **Dwarkanātha:** It seems that we must become humble. Wemustbecomeservantstotheminthesensethatwe doeverythingthatwecantofacilitatetheirservice.Then whentheyseewearesurrenderingtoourservice,they willsurrendertous. **Prabhupāda:**Verygoodidea.Exampleisbetterthan precept.Youshouldallbepersonalexamples,andthey willdothat.Youdonotpractice,ifyousimplyforcethem, thatwillnotbegood.Everyoneofyou,ifyouriseearly inthemorning,theywillalso.Ifyouthink,"Itismeant forthestudents,wearenowliberatedpersons,we can sleepupto7:30." **Jagadīśa:** Prabhupāda, the teachers are all setting a good example in that way. **Prabhupāda:** Hmm? **Jagadīśa:** The teachers are setting a good example in that way. **Prabhupāda:** Then it will be followed. You rest assured. **Jagadīśa:** But there is a question that sometimes a teacher feels reluctant to encourage the children strongly to participate in the devotional activities. **Prabhupāda:** Why? **Jagadīśa:** Because he doesn't want to force them to do devotional service. **Prabhupāda:** No, that should be done. Teachers must do and students must also do it. **Jagadīśa:** The love on the part of the teacher... **Prabhupāda:** No. There it is recommended...Cānakya Paṇḍita said: *lālane bahavo doṣāḥ*—who loves unnecessarily, to make them stupid, that is not good. *Lālanebahavodoṣāḥ*.Ifyoubecomelenient,then there will be many faults. *Tāḍane bahavo guṇāḥ*...and if you strictlyinducethem,forcibly,tobedisciplined,that is verynice.*Bahavo guṇāḥ*...that isgoodqualities. *Lālane *bahavodoṣāḥ/tāḍanebahavoguṇāḥ/tasmātputraṁcaśiṣyam catāḍayennatu lālayet. Therefore,eithertosonsorthedisciples,students,they shouldbealwaysstrictlyforced.Don'tbelenient.Why shouldwebelenient?Thatisnotgood.Theyareafterall "child,"soifyoubecomelenienttheywillthinkthisis thepractice.No.Youmustgetup.Thatisdiscipline. **Jagadīśa:** We see that when they are given good discipline in that way, they respond nicely. They chant. **Prabhupāda:** Yes, Whyshouldyoubelenient?Thatisyourfault.But,out of "love" we shall see our sons or disciples go to hell. Thatisnotgood,thatisfoolishness. Butwhentheyaregrownup,16yearsold,theyshould betreatedasfriend.*Prāptetuṣoḍaśevarṣeputraṁmitravad ācaret*. [Cāṇakya Paṇḍita] **Herearetheinstructions:**fromfiveto15years, all the sons and students should be kept under strict disciplinaryorder.Iftheydonotfollow,theyshouldbe chastised. Then as soon as one attains the 16th year,then treathimasfriend.Atthattime,donotforce.Thenhe'll deviate, go out. That is happening in your western countries. *Prāpte* *tu ṣoḍaśe varṣe putraṁ mitravad ācaret.* Alltheinstructions. **Dayānanda:** We also have girls here, Prabhupāda. **Prabhupāda:** Hmm? **Dayānanda:** We also have girls here, Prabhupāda, so this is *śiṣyaś ca putraś ca*, but what about girls? **Prabhupāda:** Girl is also "*putra*." *Putra* means *putra/putrī*, don't think that. *Putra* means daughter and *putra* means son. **Dayānanda:** Strictly also with the girls? **Prabhupāda:** Yes. **Dayānanda:** Up to 16? **Prabhupāda:** Yes. Up to 15. So according to Vedic civilization up to 15th year the girl is kept under the vigilance of the father, and when she attains youthful body, then she must be entrusted to another young boy to take charge. This is Vedic. Then the father becomes relieved of the responsibility. As soon as the grownup daughter is delivered to a young man, then they live peacefully. **Jagadīśa:** Prabhupāda, in our movement the fathers are sending their daughters to *gurukula*. Should the daughters remain in *gurukula* until they are married? **Prabhupāda:** At *gurukula* the girls should be taught, especially, how to become chaste and, of course, an expert in cooking. Then, she will never be neglected by her husband. Her life becomes very happy. **Dayānanda:** Some of our girls are also intelligent in Sanskrit. **Prabhupāda:** That is all right. They can read *śāstra*, but these are the primary conditions. Then, she will be educated. She can teach, she can preach. **Jagadīśa:**Prabhupāda, I heard that you suggested that the girls can be initiated when they are ten, so they can cook in the Deities' kitchen. I think that is a good suggestion. They won't chant 16 rounds, but if it is enforced... **Prabhupāda:** That is compulsory what I have given. Attending the functions of the temple and chanting on their beads—automatically they'll advance. Especially the obligation ofchanting,andifyouarechanting,thatistheessence. So in every *kīrtana* function, every *ārati*, have a nice *kīrtana*. That speaks... [pause] *Gurukula *means we shouldalwaysknowthat.Allthestudents,theyshould be educated in such a way that they become good citizens,gooddevotees,andtheyknowthevaluesoflife. Other schools—they do not know. They become cats and dogs. They do not know what is the value of life. Therefore, the whole world is in a dirty condition. Studentsarenoteducated.Theyareeducatedtobecome polisheddogs,that'sall.Theyremainadog,polisheddog. *Śruti* means to educate the students to become human beings. That is the difference. [break] I am running continually. What is the difference? There is no difference, so it is equally gross. But if you teach that "No, running is not our business. Ourbusinessisself-realization."Yes.Andthedifficultyis there was no scientific teaching of spiritual education beforethismovement,atleastinthisage.Everyone bogus if you are after scientific spiritual understanding. But because everyone is after material name,fame,andgain,theso-calledsvāmīsorpriestsand *yogīs*, they have also taken this as a means of earning thismaterialfame,nameandmaterialgain.They have no knowledge. That is a challenge. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a challenge to all these rascals. That is the special significance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Itisachallengetoallclassesofrascals.Sohowmuchwe shouldbestrongandjustremain.Itisachallengetoall rascals—so-called priests, so-called svāmīs, so-called yogīs,so-calledpoliticians.Theydonotknow.Theyhave noknowledge. Justlikeinourcountry,Vivekānanda—healsocametoyourcountry.Hehadnoknowledge;he cameasanIndian *sādhu*.[Sarcastically]*Vedānta*!Andhe advertises in India that: "Now all the Americans have becomeVedāntists,Hindus,something,etc.[Scornfully] Hedidnotknowwhat*Vedānta*is,andhecametopreach *Vedānta*.ThereisnonameofKṛṣṇa,nosmellofKṛṣṇain theirsociety,andtheyare"Vedāntists." Therefore,my,someofmyGodbrothers,theygave me this title, "Bhaktivedānta." *Vedānta* means *bhakti*. That wasthedesireofmy*guru mahārāja*,thatthisboy will preach*Vedānta*,but*bhakti*.Vedāntameans *bhakti*. Seethe argument from *Bhāgavad-gītā*. Kṛṣṇa says, "By Vedic knowledgeoneistounderstandMe."Trytounderstand the logic. *Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. Vedaiś ca sarvair* [[bg/15/15|[Bg. 15.15] ]]. There are different *Vedas—Sāma Veda, Ṛg, Atharva*, and then there are corollaries—*Upaniṣads,* Vedānta-sūtra,then*Purāṇas*,Mahābharata, Rāmāyaṇa—these are all *Vedas*, Vedic knowledge, explained in differentwaysfordifferentclassesofmen.So,therefore, Kṛṣṇasays*vedaiścasarvair*, *all* Vedicknowledge.Four *Vedas, Upaniṣads, Vedānta-sūtra* and *Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, Purāṇas*, all these *Vedas*. What is the purpose of studying all this Vedic literature? To understand*Me*. *Vedaiścasarvairahamevavedyo*. SothisVedicknowledgeisthere.Peopleareexpert[some areexpert,notall].SowhydotheynotunderstandKṛṣṇa? Thisisthenextquestion."Vedāntists"means[theyare advertising they are Vedāntists, but they do not knowwhatisKṛṣṇa.They'remanufacturinganimitation Kṛṣṇabytheirmentalconcoction.Iftheyknew Kṛṣṇa, then why would they manufacture Ramakrishna? Hmm? TheydidnotknowKṛṣṇa.Itisafact. Otherwise, why should they present a false Kṛṣṇa, Ramakrishna. Ramakrishna, at the time of death, he informed his disciple,Vivekananda,"IamthesameRāmaandKṛṣṇa. He [Vivekananda]acceptedit,andhepreachedonthat intheRamakrishnatemple.IfIamthesame,thenwhy notgototheoriginalKṛṣṇa?Heisbecominganimportant man,beingthesameRāmaandKṛṣṇa,whynottheoriginal Rāma and Kṛṣṇa? That intelligence he has got. They accept it. So why he could not understand? Supposing he has studied*Vedānta*.ButwhycouldhenotunderstandKṛṣṇa, and why is he presenting a false Kṛṣṇa? What is the reason?Tellmeinyouranswer.*Vedaiścasarvairaham eva vedyaḥ*[[bg/15/15|[Bg. 15.15] ]]. Through*Vedānta,Vedas*,itisacknowledged that one can understand Kṛṣṇa. But they did not understand Kṛṣṇa. Why? Supposing they have studied all the Vedic literatures, but why did they not understand Kṛṣṇa?Whatistheanswer? **Aśoka:**Theydidnotunderstandthe*Vedānta*. **Prabhupāda:** No, suppose they understood, or studied.Yes,theydidnotunderstand.Whythen,thatis thequestion.Whydidtheynotunderstand? **Brahmānanda:** Kṛṣṇasays*nāhaṁprakāśaḥ sarvasya *[[bg/7/25|[Bg. 7.25] ]]. IdonotrevealMyself. **Prabhupāda:** Why Kṛṣṇa refuses to be manifestedtothem?Why?Iamasking*why*. **Jagadisa:**BecausetheyareenviousofKṛṣṇa. **Dayānanda:**Becauseof *Bhaktived*ānta! **Prabhupāda:** Hm? **Dayānanda:** Because of *Bhaktivedānta!* **Prabhupāda:**Yes,hereistheanswer! Their Vedāntaiszero;thereisno*bhakti*.Therefore,itrequiresthehelpofBhaktivedānta.Notthis rascal*Vedānta*.Kṛṣṇasays,*bhaktyāmāmavijānāti.[[bg/18/55|[Bg. 18.55] ]] You may read all the Vedic literatures, but if you have no *bhakti*, then you cannot understand. That is *nāhaṁprakāśaḥ sarvasya*.ThenHewillremainconcealed.Neverunderstand Him. Thesepeople—theyhaveno*bhakti*.Theytransfer*bhakti*togoddessKālī,whoisworshippedbythepersons in the lower grade of life. *Tamo-guṇa. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya devatāḥ* [[bg/7/20|[Bg. 7.20] ]].* Goddess Kālī or Durga,oranydemigod—theyareworshippedbypersons—*hṛta-jñānāḥ*.Theyhavenoknowledge.Especially *hṛta* *jñānāḥ—*whoseknowledgeistakenaway,gonetohell. **Aśoka:** Prabhupāda, they worship for success in *bhakti*. **Prabhupāda:**That'sallright,youcangetsuccess, butwhatwillyoudowiththissuccess? **Aśoka:**UseitforKṛṣṇa. **Prabhupāda:** Kṛṣṇadoesnotsaythatyouworship goddess for successful worship. Kṛṣṇa never said that. Kṛṣṇa says, *mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja* [[bg/18/66|[Bg. 18.66] ]]. Where does He say to worship goddess? Does He say? Why do you worship goddess? That is for the materialistic person. Thereissomematerialgain.Theycanworshipgoddess. ButforgettingthemercyofKṛṣṇa,thereisnomention thatyouworshipgoddess.Whereisthisstated?If you worship goddess, then you can worship Me. Is this stated?Whydoyoudothat? Universal. *Mām ekaṁ*. Beginning.That'sall.*Ekaṁ*—one,meansuniversal. But why do you accept? Thatisignorance.Wehavenoobjectionifyou praytogoddessforKṛṣṇa*bhakti*.Butthereisnoneed!If Kṛṣṇawantstofavoryou,Hedoesnotdependongoddess' favor. Suppose if somebody wants to see me, if I say, "Yes,Iwanttoseehim,"itdoesnotdependonanother's favortoseeme. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa said that: "Just surrender to Me; everythingwillbeallright.Thisiscalled*eka-niṣṭhā*: [fixation on One Supreme.]You do not require." Kṛṣṇa says that, "You go to My representative." > tad viddhi praṇipātena > paripraśnena sevayā > upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ > jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ > [[bg/4/34|[Bg. 4.34] ]] He neversaysthatyougotogoddessKālī,Durgā,Hedoesn't. Hecondemns—*kāmaistaistairhṛta jñānāḥ*—go toMyrepresentative.The*Vedas*also say—*tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa* *gurumevābhigacchet*. [*Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad* 1.2.12] Itneversays—*tad-vijñānārthaṁ*—one should approach something else, some demigods. No.*Gurumevābhigacchet*.ButtheyarealsodevoteesoftheLord,sowehavenodisrespectforanydemigod.But itdoesn't require. Peopledidnotunderstand*Vedānta*simplyby studying *Vedānta*.But*Vedānta*shouldbestudiedfromthe*bhakta*. Therefore, *Bhaktivedānta*. We don't read *Vedānta* without *bhakti*. That is our specialty.*Vedānta* is required. Without*Vedānta*knowledge,knowledgeisnot perfect. But through* bhakti*. So, they did not accept *bhakti*. Therefore, they could not understand *Vedānta*.Misrepresented.Thisso-calledVedāntists'society,what is their value? They could not understand what is the objectiveof*Vedānta*.TheythinkthatKṛṣṇaandafalse Ramakrishna are the same. Vivekananda teaches, "Why are you searching after God. There are so many gods loitering in the street. *Daridra-nārāyaṇa*. Why are you goingtoNārāyaṇa? **Brahmānanda:** Healsosaid,"Insteadofcultivating*tulasī*,cultivate*brinjal*[eggplant]. **Prabhupāda:** Yes. Puffed-up materialist. [Sarcastically] And he wanted to please the Lord. Therefore,hehasnotbeensuccessful. [ToBrahmānanda:] Youweregoingtohisclasses? **Brahmānanda:** Yousavedus. **Prabhupāda:** Hmm? **Brahmānanda:** Yousavedus. [long pause, some indistinct conversation] **Jagadīśa:** There was one more question about when the girls get older. You've already mentioned that they should stay at *gurukula*. Sometimes the parents may want to take the daughter home when they are ten or eleven years old. They may cause a distraction from the temple service. So, whether that is all right also? **Prabhupāda:**You can request them, but if they do not hear you, what can I do? **Jagadīśa:** But the boys? If the parents want their young sons to live at home and attend *gurukula* during the day and then go home at night, is that a good policy? **Prabhupāda:** *Gurukula* means they must be residing. **Jagadīśa:** Up til 15 years? **Prabhupāda:** At least. Boys can live here up to 25th year, until they are married. **Jagadīśa:** 25th year... **Prabhupāda:** [simultaneously] If they want to marry! [laughter] **Jagadīśa:** That answers all our questions, Prabhupāda. Thank you very much. **Everyone:** Jaya Prabhupāda.