SB 6.1.9 — June 22, 1975, Los Angeles

Santoṣa: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. [devotees repeat] [leads chanting of verse, etc.] 

dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyaṁ yat pāpaṁ
jānann apy ātmano ‘hitaṁ
karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ
prāyaścittam atho katham
[SB 6.1.9]

[break] [01:16] 

Translation: “I have actually seen that one who becomes a criminal by committing sinful acts is punished by the government’s law, but although rebuked, he does the same thing again. One also hears from the scriptures spoken by learned scholars that committing sin throws one into hell in the next life. Nevertheless, although he has received full experience through seeing and hearing, which are the sources of practical knowledge, he is forced repeatedly to commit sins and again perform acts of atonement. What then is the value of such atonement?” 


dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyaṁ yat pāpaṁ
jānann apy ātmano ‘hitaṁ
karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ
prāyaścittam atho katham
[SB 6.1.9]

This is intelligence. Mahārāja Parīkṣit is Vaiṣṇava, and his inquiry was: “How these men who are rotting in this hellish condition can be relieved?” That was his question. So… [music on loudspeakers] What is that? 

Jayatīrtha: The radio, some interference on the microphone. The radio is being picked up outside. 

Prabhupāda: I have already explained that there are three ways: karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa and upāsanā-kāṇḍa. Therefore Veda is called trayī, three kinds of activities. So devotees, they are not in the karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. He is not pure devotee. Bhakti means jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. There is no touch of this fruitive activities or speculative knowledge. The devotees do not accept this. 

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā
[Brs. 1.1.11]

That is first-class bhakti, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu, just to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He was not willing to fight or to kill the other party. That is very good. He is a Vaiṣṇava. Naturally he does not like to fight or pick up quarrel with others or do some harm to others. Vaiṣṇava is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He knows very well that “If something harmful is done to me, I am unhappy, so why should I commit the same thing to others?” So… But in spite of his conviction that he should not fight, still, when Kṛṣṇa insisted up to the point that “Your this mercy upon them will not act because it is already My plan that they will have to die. So you have become very kind, but you cannot surpass My plan. That is not possible. I have come here…” Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. “That is My true mission: to save the devotees and to annihilate the nondevotees. So here I have brought them all together in this battlefield, and it will be finished.” 

Whenever there is some crash, either railway or the airplane, it should be noted that all those passengers are destined to die by the will of God, and they come together and be killed. Because without the sanction, will, of God, nothing can take place. [break] …some reason? Father is not unkind, but when father denies the same facility he is giving to the other child, that does not mean he is unkind. [break] …the devotee is suffering from some reverse condition, then he is feeling very much obliged to Kṛṣṇa, God: “Oh, my dear Lord, it is Your great mercy that I am suffering.” This is devotee. He is suffering, and he is taking it as great mercy of God. Tat te anukampām. Anukampā. Anukampā means mercy. So “It is Your mercy.” Tat te ‘nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam [SB 10.14.8]. He knows the same thing, that a man suffers on account of his past sinful activities or present sinful activities. The past or present doesn’t matter. If one is sinful, then he must be punished. 

Just like here it is said, dṛṣṭa. Dṛṣṭa means by direct experience. Direct experience everyone has seen, that a thief, he is arrested. This is our direct experience. He has committed theft, and therefore he is arrested by the police. It is our direct experience. And śrutābhyām, by hearing from the law book or scripture, whatever you take… In the law book it is stated that “You commit a theft, then you will be punished, imprisoned, for six months.” Or “If you commit murder, then you will be hanged.” This is called śrutābhyām, “by hearing.” We have got two senses: one, by the knowledge-acquiring senses, and practical working senses. So dṛṣṭa means our eyes are working, and we see that a criminal is arrested and he is punished. And śruta means knowledge-gathering. Just like you gather knowledge from book. So we have got two senses—not two senses, but ten senses: five senses knowledge gathering, and five senses direct, knowledge, working senses. So dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyām means by two senses, two kinds of senses: knowledge-gathering senses and working senses. We have experience by two kinds of senses. 

So Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that a person, means a sinful person, he is getting experience from the both kinds of senses, dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyām, and by that experience he knows that “This is not good. This is a sinful act.” Just like in your country, in each cigarette factory, er, cigarette packet, what is written there? 

Sudāmā: “It is hazardous for the health.” 

Prabhupāda: So he knows it, that “I am smoking something which is detrimental to my health.” But why he is smoking? Why he is smoking? This is the question. Prāyaścitta… Now from smoking sometimes he gets bronchitis or something, some disease in the heart. So he goes to the doctor, he suffers, and he takes medicine and he is cured, then again smoking, again do the same thing. One is suffering from syphilis, and he is suffering so much. The doctor gives injection and so on, so on. Then, after being cured, again doing the same. That is his question. It is not that a man always commits sinful activities without knowledge. No. They have full knowledge. So if one does…, cannot resist himself from sinful activity, then what is the meaning of this atonement? He rejects, “This is useless.” You commit some sinful activities and go to the church and pay some fine, and again you commit sinful acts. So it is useless. That is questioned by Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Prāyaścittam atho katham: “What is this?” That is intelligence. He is devotee. He knows that this kind of atonement is useless. It has no meaning. 

So the problem is that within the heart we have got so many dirty things. So unless those dirty things are removed or cleansed, this kind of prāyaścitta or medicine or fine or going to the jail—he is not saved. He will commit the same thing. Again will suffer. Again he will suffer. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Real problem is that we should stop our suffering. But the karmīs, they are interested in the temporary cure, and they do not know how to cure completely, there will be no more suffering. That they do not know. But a Vaiṣṇava, because he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he knows what is real suffering, because he understands from Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa says that “Your real suffering is these four things, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]: repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. Actually this is your problem.” So without devotees, without hearing from Kṛṣṇa, these rascals, they do not know actually what is the problem nor what is suffering. They are simply concerned with temporary suffering and temporary cure. Therefore they have been explained, they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā, as mūḍhas. Mūḍha means ass. 

So the whole world is going on like that, full of asses. Not only asses, but like other animal. That is described in the Bhāgavatam: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. Śva means dog. And people are being kicked [indistinct], śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra. Uṣṭra means camel, and khara means ass. 

So, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. Puruṣa paśuḥ. These small animals—dog, camel—they are not as powerful as the lion. So lion is a big animal, and the small animals, they are afraid of the big lion. They are afraid of and they are praising. “O my dear lion, O king…” Lion is considered as the king of the animals, paśu rāja. Actually, he is the king in the jungle. Everyone is afraid of him, he is so powerful. Even the elephant is afraid of the lion. So if the lion is praised by some small animals, does it mean the lion is not animal? Has it any value like the human being? No. Still he is animal. Even though the small animals are praising, giving votes, “You become president,” [laughter] but who is these voters? Another animal. This is democracy. The small animals are voting the big animal. So how you can expect peace? That much I have already explained. So this is not civilization, that the small animals giving vote to the big animals to occupy the government. That is going on. This will not help. 

So according to Vedic civilization, the king or the president or the ruling chief must be representative of God. That is wanted. Therefore you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]: “This Bhagavad-gītā was understood by the rājarṣi.Rājarṣi means… Rāja means king, and ṛṣi means great saintly person. Rājarṣi. So education, culture, is meant for the higher two classes: the brāhmaṇas and the kṣatriyas. Education means for them, those who are intelligent, for them. Education is not for masses. Now it is called mass education. So mass education means it will produce undesirable elements. That’s all. So the Vedic system is there must be first of all the most intelligent class of men. They should be given education how to become self-controlled, śamaḥ; how to control the mind, how to control the senses; śama damaḥ satyam, how to become truthful; śaucam, how to become cleanse; śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa, how to become tolerant; ārjavam, how to become simple, no intricacy; śamo damas satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa ārjavam eva ca, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam, full of knowledge; and vijñānam, practical application in life; āstikyam, and to believe in the existence of God or knowing God partially or fully. Partially knowing God means impersonal, or Paramātmā. This is partial. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. …Vote. So that vote means small animals voting for the big animals, so you cannot be happy in the animal society, there must be intellectual class of men. and there must be good ruling government then [indistinct] Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement. It is not a religious sect, it is not a religion, religion means [indiistinct] religion. But you do not know meaning, it is not a religious sect. 

They say religion is a type of faith. Similarly, during this philosophy. So, “You are okay; I am okay.” Our proposal is not that. Our proposal is, “You are not okay; I am okay.” [laughter] 

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol! 

Prabhupāda: This is our proposal. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is not okay. “Why? What you are saying like that?” No, I am not saying; Kṛṣṇa says. And because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, we must simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa says. That’s all. That is our business. So what Kṛṣṇa says? He says, 

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
[Bg. 7.15]

He says, “Anyone who is not surrendering to Me, he belongs to these categories.” What is that? Duṣkṛtina, sinful. You cannot check the sinful activities [indistinct]. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious [indistinct] then you cannot check. He says [indistinct]. Duṣkṛtina. They continue to become sinful. [indistinct]. Duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means engaged in sinful activities. Why? Mūḍha. Because he is a rascal. He does not know that he is committing sinful activities, he’ll have to suffer. Nature’s law, you cannot avoid it. Even a child touches this fire, it will burn. It will not excuse, “Ah, here is child [indistinct].” No. If you commit any sinful activities, small or big, that will be explained. That we understand [indistinct], that according to the degree of your sinful activities, you will have to suffer. 

So those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are mūḍhas, they do not know; they cannot make distinction what is sinful and what is not. They think everything is [indistinct]. “You are okay; I am okay.” [indistinct] That is not [indistinct]. That may be very good, for keeping your social relationships… 

Just like in the United Nation, they judge [indistinct] institution to remain in peace. Then how they can remain in peace? Everyone is full with dirty things in the [indistinct]. So simply making a show that “We are all brothers. You are okay; I am okay,” will that bring peace? [indistinct] It is simply a misrepresentation. Nobody wants. The real okay means when you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. If everyone becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we can say, “You are okay.” Otherwise… Otherwise, he is debauchee. Without being able to control himself, he will commit sinful activities, and he will suffer. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the most valuable movement, welfare activities. [indistinct] …it is not a type of so called religion. 

Thank you very much. 

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. [offer obeisances] [end] 

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