Morning Walk on Waikiki Beach — May 29, 1975, Honolulu

Śrutakīrti: [introducing recording] The following morning walk conversation takes place at Waikiki Beach, Hawaii, on May 29th, 1975. [break] 

Prabhupāda: When it is said that all these are created by God, they become very angry, eh? Is it not? 

Paramahaṁsa: Sometimes. 

Prabhupāda: Sometimes, or always? 

Śrutakīrti: You mean some of the scientists. 

Prabhupāda: All of them, invariably. 

Paramahaṁsa: Some of them accept… 

Prabhupāda: Invariably. The scientists, as soon as somebody says, “This is all created by God,” they become very angry, eh? 

Bali-mardana: Yes. 

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is… What is the reason they become angry? Somebody has created. They say “nature.” Take nature, somebody, but you have not created. 

Śrutakīrti: They want a more complex answer. 

Prabhupāda: What is that complex answer? Somebody has created, that’s all. 

Śrutakīrti: They want to know how he created it. 

Prabhupāda: How he created, that is another thing. But you have not created. Somebody else has created. First of all accept this. Then we shall go into the detail. 

Gurukṛpa: Actually they are thinking that they are the supreme brain themselves. 

Prabhupāda: Then that’s all right. How you are supreme? You cannot create like that. How you are supreme? Simply by claiming “I am supreme”? 

Gurukṛpa: Well, if they discover a theory, then they think that that makes them supreme. 

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Theory you may discover, but you have not created. That’s a fact. That’s a fact. 

Bali-mardana: They refuse to accept God because they can neither prove nor disprove. 

Prabhupāda: But no, no. God you prove or disprove, but first you have to accept that you have not created. 

Bali-mardana: Yes. 

Prabhupāda: How is that, that you are thinking that you have created or somebody… You have not created this. Somebody else. Now who is that somebody else, that we shall find out. But you have not created. You accept it. 

Bali-mardana: They say it was an accident. 

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. That is not right answer. 

Bali-mardana: Because they want to lord it over the accident. 

Prabhupāda: Then all these houses have come in an accident? Everything is created by man. How you can say accident? This is their foolishness. Nothing happens accidentally. If there is accident, then how we are walking this? There is a huge water. By accident, immediately it can drown us. If accident is so prominent, then one should be conscious that by accident the whole Hawaii Island can be… It can be done. Why it is not being happened if it is accident? Then why you are building so many buildings? You should know, by accident the whole water can… If accident is there, why you are confident that “No, it will not do”? Then where is accident? 

Bali-mardana: They are thinking that they can control the accident. 

Prabhupāda: You are not controlling. There are so many happenings, that big waves come and overflood, and there is earthquake, and everything is finished. So you are not controlling accident, even if we accept accident. Accident is not under your control. That Madhudviṣa was telling: in Darwin there was so big, powerful wind, the motor buses were flying. 

Bali-mardana: In America, tornadoes, they just destroyed one very big city. 

Gurukṛpa: But the thing would be too simple. If they accepted there was God, they would be out of a job, and then there would be nothing more to speculate about. 

Prabhupāda: Hmm? 

Gurukṛpa: If they accepted God, then they would have nothing more to speculate about. 

Bali-mardana: They would lose their jobs. 

Prabhupāda: [laughs] That is another poor fellow. If by bluffing like this, they can continue their office, that is another thing. In our childhood we were living in a quarter, there many thieves, pickpockets. So we… After all, they were neighborhood men, so they knew us. Although we had no connection, but we knew that “These are pickpockets, guṇḍās.” And they also knew us. So I remember, now, children, one pickpocket was taking, and as soon as he saw me… [laughter] [laughs] He was afraid that “This boy may tell.” We have seen it. He was doing… Similarly, these rascals are pickpockets, and they are asking us, “Don’t expose us. Let us do.” 

Gurukṛpa: You told us the story that in New York you walked in one yoga āśrama, and the man who was teaching yoga, and he told you in Hindi, “Don’t reveal that… This is my… I am feeding my family by this method.” 

Prabhupāda: That is tanker? Oil tanker, yes, carrying so much oil. 

Gurukṛpa: They have this type of gas now that they freeze it, and it shrinks one…, it shrinks five hundred times. 

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? 

Gurukṛpa: And they put it in these big tanks, and they bring it across the ocean, and then when they get it to port, they again heat it up into the big tanks and it expands. So they freeze it and it becomes smaller, and then they can export more. 

Prabhupāda: Oh, it becomes solid? 

Devotee: Just like liquid oxygen, they cool it, and yes, it comes to the liquid state. 

Prabhupāda: There are so many living entity living within this sand, and on unfortunate moon there is no living entity. And we have to believe it. Hmm? What is that? 

Gurukṛpa: I was telling them we should come pick these flowers every day, its jasmine. Nobody is picking. 

Prabhupāda: Oh. No, no, they will fine. 

Gurukṛpa: No, no, they don’t know. 

Prabhupāda: What is the use, coming here, spending so much motor oil to steal this? 

Gurukṛpa: No, we are doing that anyway. We are doing that anyway. To go pick these flowers daily, they are going so many places and being chased away. They would rather see them rot than to give them to us. 

Devotee: They don’t let us pick. [break] 

Prabhupāda: All nonsense. They are professing, “I am Christian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” but they are enemies, one another. So where is their religion? Just see. Common sense. Even the animals, amongst themselves, they do not say “Keep out.” Sit down together. They sit down actually. The birds, beasts of the same position, they keep together. “Birds of the same feather flock…” But human being, having, professing so many religions—enemies. This is their civilization. They discover better religion, but enemies to the animal, to the man, everyone. Therefore Bhāgavata religion is meant for persons who are not enemies. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. That is religion. We have come to here from India not as enemy but as friend, to give you Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is dharma. Although politically they are enemies—India is thinking “America is my enemy,” or America is thinking “India is my enemy”—we do not think like that. We go everywhere, take Kṛṣṇa consciousness, be happy. This is our business. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām. “Private. Keep out.” 

Bali-mardana: Their condition is worse than the animals. 

Prabhupāda: They have been described as dvīpada-paśuḥ, animals, but with special difference: the animals, ordinary animals, they have got four legs, and they have got two legs. Dvīpada-paśuḥ. Everything is there. And the Vedic civilization is no “Keep out,” but even the enemy comes at your home, you receive him as very good friend. Gṛhaṁ satram api prāptam. At your home, even your enemy comes, you should receive him in such a way, viśvastam akūto bhayam, he will forget that you are enemy. He will be so confident, that “I have come to a friend’s house.” This is Vedic civilization. And the Western civilization: “Beware of dog. Keep out.” And actually, they fire if you enter. And there is law that if he fires, you cannot stop. Trespassing. Private individually, private nationally, private communally—simply private. And when death will come, “No, sir. Keep out.” “No ‘keep out.’ Why you are here? I will keep it out. I will now keep it out.” Then what you will do? When Kṛṣṇa will come and say, “I will keep it out now,” what you will do? You have to go, go out. Finished, all “Keep out,” “Private,” everything finished. 

Gurukṛpa: But I am surrounded by my family members, who will protect me. 

Prabhupāda: Huh? 

Gurukṛpa: My family members, they will protect me. 

Prabhupāda: But “You keep out. You rascal keep out.” That is the last answer. And they will be also kept out, but let them live for some time. Nobody will live here. What he will do about that? So long his life is there, he says, “Keep out,” and when death will come, he will make him keep out. Then what he will do? 

Gurukṛpa: But that is in the future. Now I will enjoy. 

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness, that… They have no future. So it is useless, “Keep out.” Imagination, concoction, foolishness—this is the basic principle of material civilization. Mūḍhā, that’s all. “I am asking to keep out; I do not know how long I shall live here.” That he does not think. “I am asking others, keep out.” If I ask…, somebody asks him, “You are asking others to keep out, but when you will be asked to keep out, who will protect you? Is there any protection? Will your sons and grandsons and wife will protect you?” That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, pramatto tasya nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati, dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu ātmaśainyeṣu [SB 2.1.4]. He is thinking that “These, my wife, children and relatives and friends, will protect me not to be thrown out.” But that is not possible. He will be thrown out. He will have to be kept out. And that is not by accident. Everyone knows, “Yes.” That is not arranged. It is already arranged. Where is the question of accident? It will take place. But paśyann api na paśyati, he is so rascal, blind, although he knows, still he forgets. Forgets not; he tries to forget. Paśyann api na paśyati. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Do all these things, but remember Kṛṣṇa. Be attached to Kṛṣṇa. That is your business. And if you do not awaken that consciousness, then whatever you have done, śrama eva hi kevalam: simply waste of time and labor. That he doesn’t know. Śrama eva hi kevalam. He has got to work hard for constructing building like this and keep others out and live peacefully. But when he will be kicked out, then all this labor is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam. 

Gurukṛpa: But his family will have it for generations. 

Prabhupāda: Well, family means… When you are diseased, you do not say, “My family is there. Don’t call for a physician. I am happy.” That you do not say. You call for a physician. Your family cannot help you. And what to speak of death? That is another foolishness. When you fly in the sky with your friends and family, and when there is danger, nobody can save you. You will drop down. Everyone is flying. Even aeroplane, if there is some accident in the aeroplane, what the other aeroplane can do? If the ship is drowning, what other ship can do? You are drowning; you must drown. There is no question of “my friends and relatives.” That is described in the Bhāgavatam. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu ātma-śainyeṣu [SB 2.1.4]. He is thinking, “They are my soldiers. They will give me protection.” Ātma-śainya. Śainya means soldier. Asatsv api. It is false, but he is thinking like that. That is foolishness. When you have to fly, you have to fly on the strength of your wings, own wings, not your son’s wings or daughter’s wings or… That will not help you. Svakarma-phala, phala-bhuk. You have to enjoy or suffer according to your own activities. 

Gurukṛpa: But, you see, you want us to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but we’re a joint family, and I have to ask the permission of my elder brother, and if he says no, then I can’t do it. 

Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. Why you should take permission of your father or mother? Your business is your business. Why you are thinking like that, “I have to take permission of mother, my wife, my children”? And who will give you permission? Nobody will give you. You have to take your own permission. That is the way. You have to think that “What is the use of taking their permission? When I am in danger, will they save me?” Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. “When I will die, they can save me? Then why shall I take their permission?” That is intelligence. Nature does not depend on your wife’s or father’s and relatives’ permission. She does not care. When she will ask you, “Die now,” you have to die. No question of permission. “Now your time is up, finished. Get out.” No permission. You have to do it. Nature can await permission of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody’s permission. Mama māyā. When the police comes to arrest you, it doesn’t…, the police doesn’t care for anyone’s permission, only the government permission, that’s all. Unless the government orders, they will arrest you. The police will arrest and take you by force. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramam [Bg. 7.13]: “The rascal does not know, nobody’s permission will be accepted except My permission.” This mūḍhā does not know. Nābhijānāti: “He does not know it.” Therefore he is mūḍhā. It is now looking so peaceful, nice, but with the permission of the Lord immediately there will be a heavy cloud and storm and waves and finished everything, within a second. That is permission. [laughs] Who cares for your permission? 

Bali-mardana: Death does not discriminate between the high and the low. 

Prabhupāda: Huh? 

Bali-mardana: Death does not discriminate. 

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ [Bg. 9.10]. They are observing this nature, very powerful, but the powerful nature is working under the order of Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa. It is being informed, but they are so poor brain, they cannot understand it. Mūḍhā. Our position is just like these foams. By one little wave, millions of foams are coming out, and again finished. It is like that, our position. So our position is like foam; we are taking estimate of the ocean. This is our position. Our position is like one of the drop of the foam, and we are calculating the strength of the ocean. And when you cannot calculate, it is accident. That’s all. Finished business. It is accident. Everything is being done accident. We will never admit that we cannot calculate. Accident, that’s all. Dismiss. 

Bali-mardana: When they say accident, it simply means they do not know. 

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the meaning. But they will give a different way. They will never say, “No, we cannot calculate. We do not know. It is beyond our…” They say, “Oh, it is accident.” And boys are going to understand science, they understand this, that everything is accident. So why do you go there to understand the accident, spending so much money? [break] 

Bali-mardana: …ask the scientists about the soul, they say, “We are not fit to say anything about the soul. We do not want to comment about the soul. So we will just not discuss it.” 

Prabhupāda: What they will discuss? 

Bali-mardana: They like to discuss their own speculation—matter, material things. 

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use? 

Bali-mardana: They say that “We should discuss only the things that we can see and the things that we can know with our science. Anything we do not know is not fit for us to discuss.” 

Prabhupāda: Why? You cannot see your death? So why you are making medical science to stop death? You do not see death, but it is sure that you will die. So why don’t you wish to die? [dog barking in background] There, the scientists barking. [laughter] So many cars, all ours? No. 

Śrutakīrti: No. 

Prabhupāda: So how this chunk came here? Hmm? The scientists say… 

Gurukṛpa: There is only one answer. 

Prabhupāda: What is that? 

Gurukṛpa: Kṛṣṇa. 

Prabhupāda: No, that is your answer. What the scientists will say? 

Gurukṛpa: Well, it came from a volcano in the earth. 

Prabhupāda: It is stone. It is not separate piece. It is attached to a big… 

Gurukṛpa: Big lava came, and now it’s here. Actually, it’s all false. It doesn’t exist. It’s just like a dream. We’re just dreaming these things. But when you wake up and you’re out of the dream, then you actually come to the Brahman. This is just false. 

Prabhupāda: But when this chunk is thrown over your head, that is not false. If it is thrown over your head, then you protest, “No, no, don’t do it. Don’t do it.” 

Paramahaṁsa: We have not become so much realized that we have understood it’s false completely yet. Only theoretically. 

Prabhupāda: No, how it is false? When somebody takes one big chunk and wants to throw it upon you, why do you cry, “No, no, no, don’t do it! Don’t do it!” At that time you do not say, “No, the chunk is false. I don’t mind.” 

Gurukṛpa: Would you like to walk on the other beach, or…? 

Prabhupāda: Yes. 

Gurukṛpa: Actually, this world was created by God’s līlā, but actually, it is all just illusion. 

Prabhupāda: Not līlā. There is meaning. You can say it is līlā. [about beach] Where now? That’s not… 

Paramahaṁsa: It’s not so good. 

Prabhupāda: It is very rough. 

Gurukṛpa: There’s a beach after this. 

Bali-mardana: The whole theory of the scientists about the evolution of man—it rests on about four bones. The whole theory is based on a few bones they have found, about four different bones from the… One tooth and a jawbone and one more bone that they say are so many millions of years old. And this is the whole basis for their theories. 

Prabhupāda: So there are so many bones. Why don’t you create living entity from the bones? 

Śrutakīrti: [commenting on beach] This side is very dirty. 

Prabhupāda: Hmm. [break] Light is light so long the sun is not there. Similarly, all these scientists are scientists so long God is not there. And as soon as God is there… Just like our men. They do not care for all this shining, shining light of scientists. The glowworms, they are light so long it is darkness. When it is sunshine, there is no use of these glowworms. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti [Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3]. This is the Vedic instruction. If you understand God, then you understand everything. Then you will not be allured by the so-called rascal scientist—accident and this, that, bone. We are not interested. [about beach:] This side is better than the other side. When I was coming to America by ship, at night I was seeing, about hundred miles away, there is one ship, a little light. There is a difference, so many miles. Vast ocean. Somebody live there always? No. Somebody is there. 

Gurukṛpa: Yes, someone stays there. 

Śrutakīrti: There is a house there, yes. 

Bali-mardana: Now they are making them automated, because it costs too much money to have someone stay. 

Prabhupāda: Automatic, and he is unemployed. 

Bali-mardana: Yes. 

Śrutakīrti: Then they’ll give him welfare check instead. 

Gurukṛpa: It’s cheaper. [Prabhupāda chuckles] People, even if they’re offered a job, they don’t want it, they won’t take it, because they like to get the free check. 

Prabhupāda: Śūdra. Śūdra. So long he has got money to eat, he will sleep on the beach. He will not work. That is śūdra. And if he has got enough money, then he will spend it for wine and women. That’s all. So long he has got money, he will not work. And as soon as he has got money, he will spend it for wine and woman. This is called śūdra. 

Bali-mardana: There are over eleven million people in the United States just living on welfare. [break] 

Gurukṛpa: …big calamity such as a big earthquake, like that, then… 

Prabhupāda: We shall return now? 

Śrutakīrti: Yes. 

Gurukṛpa: Then they request everyone to pray to God for help. Outside of that, they will not have any interest. 

Prabhupāda: But the Communists will not do. Even they are in danger, at least outwardly they will not do. This is passenger ship, eh? 

Śrutakīrti: Yeah, it appears… 

Gurukṛpa: About fifty years ago they made a ship called the Titania [sic]. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. 

Gurukṛpa: And they were very proud, but it smashed into an iceberg. 

Prabhupāda: We were children at that time. Not children; we were young men. The first voyage, it was finished. And all big men were there. It was assured that “It will never drown.” 

Bali-mardana: They said, “This is the ship that can never sink.” 

Prabhupāda: Big chunk, ice block. [break] [end] 

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