Morning Walk — May 19, 1975, Melbourne

[in car] 

Paramahaṁsa: …purports. And that purport that you gave is very, very… 

Prabhupāda: Basic. 

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. It explains it very clearly. That will clear up any misconception. 

Prabhupāda: That law of gravity is a bogus theory. The… Sixteen hundred thousand miles… Sixteen hundred thousand miles below the sun is the Rāhu. They are going there. 

Paramahaṁsa: Rāhu. Seems like all the planets, they have that space interval of sixteen hundred thousand miles. Most of the sun… 

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. 

Paramahaṁsa: …and then the moon and Venus. That two hundred thousand yojanas. 

Prabhupāda: When the Rāhu happens to be between the two planets, sun and moon, there is eclipse. 

Paramahaṁsa: When the orbits intercross. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. 

Paramahaṁsa: Ketu is below Rāhu? 

Prabhupāda: Ketu is not mentioned there. 

Paramahaṁsa: Oh. [break] 

Prabhupāda: …another part of Rāhu. 

Paramahaṁsa: Hmm. 

Prabhupāda: Madhudviṣa Mahārāja, here is a property for sale. 

Madhudviṣa: Yes. 

Prabhupāda: Nice property. [break] …only due to difference of time it appears different. [break] …Vedic instruction. In the spiritual world and the material world the varieties are the same, but the spiritual world is light, and the material world is darkness. Same varieties. There also you will find the same man, woman, or their dealings, love, and the gardens, everything you will… Like this, this is only imitation. So if you want to be happy, go there. Tamasi mā. This is the Vedic instruction. Don’t remain in this dark region. Jyotir gama. Jyoti means light. Go there. That is the prerogative of the human form of life. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. [break] 

Madhudviṣa: They take great trouble to bring trees from all over the different parts of the world to put in the botanical gardens. 

Prabhupāda: Very nice gardens. Hardly there is such nice botanical garden in the world. I have seen many botanical… Very nice. [break] This swan is black and the crow is black, but crow’s place is different, their place is different, although they are birds. The crows will enjoy a filthy place where all refuses are thrown. I don’t think in your country there is many crows. In India, you’ve seen, all nasty place, that is visited by the crows. It is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, na tad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham [SB 1.5.10]. The literature which does not describe Kṛṣṇa, that is the place for the crows. There is sex literature, they’re enjoyed by the crows, and this Bhāgavatam is enjoyed by the swans. That is the difference. Crows’ literature and swans’ literature, paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. Everyone in this material world, they’re envious. Their business is to become envious. I am envious of you; you are envious of me. This is material world. And the paramahaṁsas, Vaiṣṇava, they’re kind, they’re merciful. “Ah, this fallen soul is suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa. Let us preach.” That is the difference. The envious and the nonenvious. That is paramahaṁsa. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ [SB 3.25.21]. They are not only not envious, but they’re merciful. They’ll suffer so many troubles for their preaching work, still they’ll do that. Titikṣava. A preacher has to suffer so many inconvenience. You had to suffer in here? 

Madhudviṣa: Where? 

Prabhupāda: In Australia. 

Madhudviṣa: Yes, we had some suffering. 

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Now you have seen that letter? We have been permitted by the federal government to sell our books in the airport. 

Madhudviṣa: Yes, that is a major breakthrough. 

Prabhupāda: The judge might have seen our literature, “It is such a nice literature they are selling, they must be given permission.” [break] No husband, no children, one dog. [laughter] Just see. Children—contraceptive. And dog—welcome. 

Woman: Good morning. 

Prabhupāda: Good morning. 

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa. 

Prabhupāda: For children—kill them. This is Kali-yuga. They are killing their own children and patting a dog. Just see how much fallen they are, and they’re passing as civilized. Fourth class. Complaining of overpopulation, and the dog gives birth at a time half a dozen—there is no overpopulation, welcome, we shall maintain them. Huh? They’re giving twice in a year, or once in a, even once in a year, that is no overpopulation. A man gives one or two birth, it is overpopulation. Formerly they are begetting hundred children. At that time there was no complaint of overpopulation. At that time, the description in the history is kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ [SB 1.10.4]. Yes. On account of good rains, the earth used to produce immense necessities of life. Just like this portion is maintained with sufficient water, there are green everywhere. So if there is sufficient rain, everywhere you can do. Where is the question of overpopulation? [break] …population you work for growing food. No. Some of them are becoming hippies, no work. And some of them are working for manufacturing tire tubes, tools, that’s all. Where is food? Still there is food, but they’ll not work for this, for growing food. 

Madhudviṣa: They have run one survey… 

Prabhupāda: Hmm. 

Madhudviṣa: …and they have found out that the people of Australia spend so much money on feeding their pets that two hundred thousand people per year could be fed with the money that is used to feed the pets. 

Prabhupāda: Just see. 

Paramahaṁsa: Population of Australia? 

Madhudviṣa: Two hundred thousand people a year. 

Prabhupāda: If they spend money for the poor country… They’ll not do that. Sinful man is given this form of tea, a tree. So, by nature is so nice that even the sinful living entities can beautify. How properly utilized. But they have no fruits and flowers. 

Madhudviṣa: No. Kali-yuga trees. [break] 

Prabhupāda: …are available here? No. 

Madhudviṣa: Popper? 

Paramahaṁsa: Yes. 

Prabhupāda: Indian store here? No. 

Devotee: Indian import store? 

Madhudviṣa: Yes. Indian import store they have here. We have poppers. [break] 

Prabhupāda: Take the ḍāl, urad ḍāl, and make it powder like flour, and knead it with oil. And give masālā and then make like cāpāṭi. And when it is dry it is pāpad. It is not difficult. Add little soda bicarb. 

Madhudviṣa: Make it stiff. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. 

Madhudviṣa: Hmm. 

Prabhupāda: Powdered ḍāl, then I can show you how to do it. 

Madhudviṣa: Powdered ḍāl. We can put the ḍāl in a grinder… 

Prabhupāda: Hmm. 

Madhudviṣa: …and grind it up. 

Prabhupāda: Now it is not done. The widows, because widows, there is no widow marriage. So widows, they earn their livelihood by making pāpad and guri [powdered rice]. They prepare at home guri, pāpad, and sell and make their livelihood. [break] 

Madhudviṣa: You have said that you have nullified the law of gravity, but how can we explain that everything is falling down? 

Prabhupāda: Yes, the green leaves not falling down—the dry leaves falling down, under certain condition. So it is not the law of gravitation. Why the green leaves does not fall down? Only the rejected things are falling. The rejected, you also throw away, so nature is throwing away. Where is the question of gravity? 

Madhudviṣa: But when they go up in the space ship there is such a force holding the rocket ship down, they must have… 

Prabhupāda: That is everything. Everything, everything will fall down on the ground, but the controlling power is the air. If the air is adjusted, then it will not fall down. 

Madhudviṣa: That’s why when they go into outer space they become weightless, they can float without any airplane. 

Prabhupāda: That, what they’re doing [indistinct]. But we see that if you can make adjustment of the air, just like we see the heavy cloud bearing many million tons of water, they do not fall down; they float. Where is the law of gravity? 

Paramahaṁsa: [laughs] Hare Kṛṣṇa. You also give that example of those big birds. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. Big, big birds, they carry elephant and throw [indistinct]. 

Madhudviṣa: We have not seen such a bird. [devotees laugh] 

Prabhupāda: What you have seen? You have seen your father and mother, that’s all. What you have seen? You are still in the womb of your mother. What you have seen? You can simply falsely speculate, that’s all. What you have seen? Are you seeing the stars now? Why you are not seeing? The stars are there. Why you are not seeing? 

Madhudviṣa: My eyes are not good enough. 

Prabhupāda: Therefore if you have got imperfect eyes, what you can see? First of all you admit that you have got imperfect eyes. Then what you can see with your imperfect eyes? If you are a blind man, what is the use of telling, “I do not see”? You are blind man, what you can see? First of all you admit that you are blind man, then talk of seeing. Therefore Vedic literature… Śāstra-cakṣusā. You should see through śāstra, not your these blind eyes. Śāstra says, “There is Kṛṣṇa, He is doing like that, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛk…” You should see like that. What you see with your eyes? Why you are so proud of your eyes? Blind eyes. That is submission. Do you see who is your father? Why do you accept by the recommendation of the mother that “He is your father.” Do you see who is your father? Then what is the use of telling, “I want to see”? What you can see? You have to take the authority of the mother. Mother says, “Here is your father,” that’s all. You cannot say, “I have not seen that he is my father.” Can you say? So there is no value of this statement, “I do not see” or “We cannot see.” 

Madhudviṣa: In other books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it says things, and then in time you can see them, you can substantiate them. But some of the descriptions in the Bhāgavatam are so fantastic that people…, I mean, it’s very difficult for people to even… 

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to believe only. You have to accept what Bhāgavata says. That is your business. Not to try to make an experiment. That is not possible. It is already experimented, and the mature knowledge is stated there. You have to accept, that’s all. Śruti-pramāṇa. Śruti means Vedas. Evidence… Vedic literature there are three kinds of evidences. The most powerful evidence is śruti. If it is stated in the Vedas, that is first-class evidence. Therefore whatever we say, immediately quote some Vedic version. That is the way of understanding. Kṛṣṇa says, Vyāsadeva says, Parāśara says. That’s all. We don’t require much proof. This is the first-class proof, when you find the statement corroborated by the Vedas. And śruti, smṛti. Smṛti means literature written according to the Vedic version. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi [Brs. 1.2.101]. Purāṇādi itihāsa, history. And another pramāṇa is anumāna. And anumāna means “by right person.” Thinking that “It may be like this,” anumāna. That is called anumāna. 

Madhudviṣa: Would that be like the songs written by Bhaktivinoda and things like that? 

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. 

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that the songs written by the great ācāryas are expansions of the holy name. Could you explain that? 

Prabhupāda: What is that? 

Madhudviṣa: The songs written by the great ācāryas are said to be expansions of the holy name. 

Prabhupāda: Yes, glorified. [break] Trees live for thousands of years—five thousand, six thousand. Fig tree and banyan tree, they do not die. 

Madhudviṣa: They must be especially sinful. They get five thousand years as a tree. 

Prabhupāda: No, they are most pious. Because you want to live more by science, so they are also living more years. What is the use of such living, like tree? Therefore Bhāgavata says, taravo kiṁ na jīvanti [SB 2.3.18]. You are trying to live more years by scientific advancement, but do the trees not live for many, many years? What you will gain by that? Suppose you live for three thousand years, what you will gain if you remain ignorant? Better live for a few years and understand that “This material world is worse. I have to go to the spiritual world and meet Kṛṣṇa.” That knowledge will help you. You live for ten years, but get this knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfect life. And what is the use of living like this tree for many thousands of years without any knowledge? [break] …cars, they have come to botanical garden? No. 

Madhudviṣa: No, they go…, they park their car here and they walk into town. 

Prabhupāda: Ah. Why? 

Madhudviṣa: They don’t like to pay money for parking space. So they park out here and they walk into their different office buildings. [break] 

Prabhupāda: It is said, garīb manuṣ [Bengali] jaya. A villager, very poor man, he says, “I am very poor man. I live on eating the grasshoppers.” 

Madhudviṣa: Grasshoppers. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. “I have no money. But when I go to pass stool, I ride on a horse.” They cannot pay parking fare, but they still they keep a carriage. [laughs] Garīb manuṣ [Bengali] jaya. Because the villagers go to the field for passing stool, so this garīb man, this poor man, goes on a horse. [sound of walking through leaves] Leaves can be also utilized as fire, but they do not know that. In India they collect, poor man, and use as fuel, they cook food. All this dry twigs and this, that can be used as fuel, at the same time this ground will be cleansed. 

Madhudviṣa: In India there is no problem with litter. There is no litter problem. No problem about paper and things thrown around, because everything that is thrown in the street, it is immediately taken up by some form of beggar or some form of animal. 

Prabhupāda: Municipal sweeper also. That cleans. [break] 

[in car] Similarly we can go to the place where there is simply pleasing atmosphere. Simply we have to become purified. That is required. But they don’t want to be purified. They want to become more entangled in sinful life: illicit sex, meat-eating. That they do not know, that “I am entangling myself. Instead of being purified, I am becoming more and more entangled.” This is ignorance. [break] …criticize us, shaven-headed. They don’t criticize long hairs, but shaven-headed. Just see. If you don’t criticize the long hair, why should criticize the shaven-headed? But they criticize us. So regularly they are going out? 

Madhudviṣa: Saṅkīrtana? 

Prabhupāda: Huh? 

Madhudviṣa: Oh, yes. 

Prabhupāda: That’s nice. That is wanted. Live here very nicely and go back to home, back to Godhead. Why should you die like cats and dogs? Die like a human being and be freed from all these material anxieties. But their determination is that they must live in this hellish condition. They do not believe in the next life. If they believe in the next life, then it becomes horrible. They want to avoid this question. “No, no, there is no life. Enjoy to the best capacity now.” Enjoy… We do not say that don’t enjoy, but enjoy so that you may not be implicated. There is no harm having big house, comfortable life, but keep Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong there? Hmm? Madhudviṣa Mahārāja, if they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in these big, big skyscraper building, what is their loss? 

Madhudviṣa: Hmm. 

Prabhupāda: Huh? There is no loss, but still they will not do it. We don’t say that don’t live in the… We are living in nice building; you also live in nice building. But see, do, see what we are doing there. Everyone can do it. Everyone can… That is Vedic culture. And everywhere Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa-śilā is worshiped. At least the higher caste, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—not the śūdras. Don’t eat meat, don’t have intoxication, no illicit sex, have Kṛṣṇa’s picture, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, make nice preparation. Where is the difficulty? Take this civilization. 

Devotee: Many karmīs think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you are born and then you die, and that is the finish. 

Prabhupāda: Huh? 

Devotee: Many karmīs think that you are born and then you die and then finish. 

Prabhupāda: No. That is not the fact. You are born a child, then you get a youthful body. Where you are finished? Does it mean that when the childish body is finished, the soul is also finished? Why he remembers, “Oh, I was a child like this.” This is simple argument. Where you are finished? 

Madhudviṣa: You can see the progression. When you are born you are small… 

Prabhupāda: Yes. 

Madhudviṣa: …when you die, you are big. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. 

Madhudviṣa: So that is progression. So how can they say that progression will stop? 

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another foolishness to say like that, that with the body everything is finished. Where it is finished? [break] …supposed to be educated, advanced in civilization, and this simple truth they cannot understand. Mūḍha. Where is finishing? Why you are trying to live for many years? Why don’t you welcome death? [break] 

[out of car] [devotees begin kīrtana] Hare Kṛṣṇa. [end] 

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