Room Conversation

Type:
Room Conversation
Date:
December 11
Year:
1971
Place:
New Delhi

Prabhupāda: 

[bhakti-yogena manasi]
samyak praṇihite ‘male
apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇaṁ
māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam
[SB 1.7.4]

The materialistic person, they have only one experience: this cosmic manifestation. Beyond this they have no other vision. Their senses are imperfect. Just like the astronomers, they have got big, big telescope, many other instruments. They want to see through the eyes how many stars are there, how the planets are moving, and whatever imperfect knowledge they receive, by that little knowledge they advertise themselves as great scientists. But they do not calculate that “We are trying to see the stars and planets with powerful binoculars. That means our eyes are imperfect.” And what is the guarantee that the instruments which they’re using, they are also perfect? Because that machine, that binocular, is also made by a person who is imperfect. So what is the guarantee that by seeing through binocular or microscope, the conclusion arrived, it is perfect? What is your answer? Your eyes are imperfect, that’s a fact. Otherwise, why you are using binocular, microscope? Eyes are imperfect. Originally your eyes are imperfect. Now, eyes or other senses, it doesn’t matter. Sense is sense. So you are manufacturing a machine, some instrument, by the same imperfect senses, then what is the guarantee that this machine, this binocular, if you see through the binocular, the knowledge is perfect? What is your answer? 

Devotee: Can’t be perfect. 

Prabhupāda: Answer? Any one other? 

Devotee (2): Perfect knowledge cannot be received with imperfect senses. Only through perfect senses can perfect knowledge be received. 

Prabhupāda: Therefore it should be concluded that the so-called scientists, astronomers, they are all imperfect, and they are passing off the scientists as learned. So you can challenge them, “What is the guarantee that your knowledge is perfect?” Actually it is not. They do not know how the stars are moving. They are always imperfect. Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin’s theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they’re cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he’ll protest. 

The whole world is full of conditioned living entities. They’re conditioned. Conditioned means under the control of the material nature. Guṇaiḥ karmāṇi. There are different types of conditioned souls. Some of them are good conditioned soul, some of them are passionate conditioned soul, some of them are rascal conditioned soul. So good conditioned soul means that, er, “[indistinct] that I have become very much learned, I have studied so many books, so now I am perfect.” There is little goodness, because he has studied, he, he has labored, but still he’s conditioned soul, because he has no perfect vision. Vimukta-māninaḥ. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam they have been described as vimukta-māninaḥ, that “I have become now liberated, māninaḥ.” Self-complacent, thinking that “I have become now liberated. Now I become Nārāyaṇa, God.” These Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they address among themselves as namaḥ nārāyaṇa. That means each one of them has become as good as Nārāyaṇa, because Nārāyaṇa is mukta. Nārāyaṇa paraḥ. Śaṅkarācārya says paraḥ. Paraḥ means liberated. Paraḥ and aparaḥ. Aparaḥ means conditioned. So nārāyaṇa paraḥ, avyaktāt. Nārāyaṇa is transcendental to this cosmic manifestation. He’s above. So the Māyāvādī philosopher, they think that “I have become now a liberated, as good as Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” But Bhāgavata says, “No. You are simply thinking like that. You are rascal.” Bhāgavata challenges: “You are thinking that you have become now liberated, but you are a rascal.” The Bhāgavata, Vyāsadeva is very learned, but he says “rascal,” but in a very sweet language. [laughter]. Vimukta māninaḥ. Māninaḥ: “You are contemplating.” Why? Tvayy asta, ye ‘nye ‘ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas [SB 10.2.32]. Our test is there. “I am liberated. I am Nārāyaṇa.” Why? “How you call me rascal?” Yes, we have got a test: ye ‘nye ‘ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Tvayy asta-bhāvād. Still they have not reached the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Simply impersonal idea, and self-complacent that “I have become now Nārāyaṇa.” So this kind of knowledge is aviśuddha, impure, impure knowledge, because the test is, unless one comes to the point of understanding the Personality of Godhead, the knowledge is imperfect. So they are impersonalists, and falsely thinking themselves as Nārāyaṇa. Therefore we can immediately test that “Here is a rascal.” Vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. “No. We have undergone so much austerities, penances. Whole life I remain brahmacārī, then I took sannyāsa. I have followed the rules and regulations very strictly, and still I am rascal?” Yes, you are rascal. [aside:] Don’t make sound. Silently. “Still I am rascal?” Yes. You are rascal. “Why?” Āruhya kṛcchreṇa: because the symptoms are there that you are a rascal. 

So you have to understand by the symptoms. What is that symptom? Because you left this world, “This world is false. Brahman is truth,” then why you are coming again this false world to open hospital, school, philosophy, humanitarian, all this nonsense? Why you are accepting? If it is false, and if you are in full knowledge, then why you are coming to the false platform? Therefore you are rascal. You rejected this world as false. Then why you are coming down again to the plat…, false platform. That is rascaldom. That means your conclusion was wrong. Hmm. Your conclusion was wrong. Just like Vivekananda and many others, now present, presently there is one Karpatri. Vivekananda was actually rascal. He, he had no knowledge. But the Karpatri is actually very learned man. He has studied all the Vedas, great Sanskrit scholar, but still, because he did not worship the lotus feet of the Lord, he is also proving rascal. He is now in politics. He has got a political party, Rama-Rajya Party, and nobody cares for him. He is insulted so many place, but still, but he’s so learned, if, if anyone, anybody goes and reads scriptures and Vedas, he can give very good reference and very nicely explain, but the conclusion is dull. Conclusion is dull means again he has come to this philanthropy work. So therefore Bhāgavata says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa: “Although they have undergone great austerities, penances,” āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32], “realized to some extent the Supreme Absolute Truth,” but patanty adhaḥ, “falls down.” 

The same example: just like so-called scientists, Russian and American, for so many years they’re trying to go to the moon planet, nearest planet. But here is no shelter. Actually, I do not know whether they have gone, but why they are coming back? Let them remain there, construct house there, there is everything. If there is no such possibility, why these rascals are going there? Practically, if it is full of dust only, why these rascals are going to see the dust every time? [laughter] Ask these rascals that “What benefit? You’re spending so much money and going to the moon planet and touching, ‘Now my flag is on the dust,’ [laughter] and go back with little pebbles, ‘Oh, we have gone.’ ” No. Moon-reaching day, holiday. Nixon, another rascal. Great rascal. Holiday. And what do you want there? Patanty adhaḥ. After so much endeavor, trying to go to the moon planet, they are failing. And what to speak of other planets? What to speak of the Brahmaloka, Tapaloka, Jana…? They are there. We are seeing every day, at night, there are so many. Who is going there? The nearest planet, which is about 200,000 miles, I think it is so, from here, the moon planet, and they cannot go. And what to speak of other planets? There are many. They do not…, cannot calculate how far they are, but we see every night there. So how imperfect knowledge they are. That is my point. And still they are going as scientists. Lokasya ajānataḥ. They are so fools and rascal, still they are passing on as scientists, big men, learned men. No. None of them. This is our challenge. None of them. And who is learned? Learned is Vyāsadeva. Learned is Kṛṣṇa. 

So we have to take knowledge from Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva. How? Vyāsadeva is the learned, most learned than others. How? That is explained in the Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: bhakti-yogena manasi. Because he has adopted bhakti-yoga, bhakti-yogena manasi samyak praṇihite amale [SB 1.7.4]. Bhakti-yogena, by practice of bhakti-yoga one’s mind and intelligence become cleansed, dirtiless, dirt…, without any dirt. Just like the mirror, if it is without any dirt, it is cleansed, clear, you can see everything rightly, your face, or even in the spot in the face, everything, corner to corner, very nicely reflected. So bhakti-yogena, by practicing this bhakti-yoga, one becomes cleared in consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then everything comes. Now suppose personally, myself, we are challenging, we are calling them by names, “rascal,” but I am not a scientist. I never studied astronomy, astrology, or anything. But why I am telling? What power I have got? But I am challenging on the words of a superior answer. I am confident that the words spoken by Vyāsadeva or Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect. Therefore they are rascals, because their statement do not corroborate. In other words, we can understand. That is our advantage. Bhakti-yogena. If you practice bhakti-yoga, yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23], if one is, one has unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead and his spiritual master, yathā-deve… Deve means the Supreme Lord, and guru, and guru also, the spiritual master. A person who has got unflinching faith in these two personalities-guru and Kṛṣṇa—then the facility will be that all the revealed scriptures will be manifest automatically, even though he is not, not very learned. The purport of the whole knowledge will be revealed from within, because Kṛṣṇa is within, and the spiritual master is without, so both of them will help. Our students are going so many places—in the schools, colleges, universities. They’re surprised how they’re speaking so nicely, because they have got unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. They are not so learned. They have not gone to the college and learned so many things as the materialistic students do, but on this account: bhakti-yogena manasi. Vyāsadeva also did like that. He became so great because he has accepted bhakti-yoga by the order of his spiritual master, Nārada. Before that, he wrote so many books, Purāṇas and others. He was not satisfied. When Nārada said that “You cannot be satisfied by describing so many material things. You try to describe the glories of the Lord…” So after his instruction, bhakti-yogena, by practicing bhakti-yogena, manasī, unto the mind, praṇihite, mind became settled up; intelligence, right intelligence came, and everything became amala. Amala means without any material contamination. Then he saw apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇaṁ. He saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead and also māyā. Both things he saw. 

So those who are in devotional service, they have got two things: they can see what is māyā and what is Kṛṣṇa. That is perfect life. Then he can understand how this world is going on, how Kṛṣṇa is working. Everything becomes revealed. Bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Otherwise, what qualification we have got in comparison, their M.A., Ph.D., D.S.D. and so on, so on? Still they cannot touch the right point. Just like Dr. Stahl in Berkeley University. He talked with me, and at last he became silent. So we can challenge like that. Just like we are discussing so many philosophies. So bhakti-yoga is so nice. So you execute bhakti-yoga very nicely, and then you become the topmost learned man in the world. This is a fact. 

bhakti-yogena manasi
samyak praṇihite ‘male
apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇaṁ
māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam
[SB 1.7.4]
yayā sammohito jīva
ātmānaṁ tri-guṇātmakam
paro ‘pi manute ‘narthaṁ
tat-kṛtaṁ cābhipadyate
[SB 1.7.5]
anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād
bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje
lokasyājānato vidvāṁś
cakre sātvata-saṁhitām
[SB 1.7.6]

So bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Executed properly, very simple method. Then you become the most learned man in the world. Even without going through the books, they will be revealed. Kṛṣṇa will reveal. Kṛṣṇa is śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. As you become purified by hearing the glories of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa, puṇya-śra, hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi, the dirty things which push obstacles and impure understanding, they are removed. They’re washed up. Washed up. Just like if your room is dirty, there…, there is possibility… Therefore I ask you, keep cleansed, your bathing, your clothes, your room. Otherwise you’ll suffer hepatitis or jaundice, this, that. You’ll suffer, because you are not clean. If you clear, you remain cleansed, then there will be no disease. If you remain cleansed, you eat properly-don’t eat more, don’t eat less—there will be no disease, no doctor. That’s a fact. But you do not know cleanliness, although you are…, that is because your, your cleanliness is with machine. And without machine, you cannot keep clean. Why not this broomstick is sufficient? If in India machine is not available, you cannot be clean? Keep everything cleansed-utensils, plates, teeth, hands, feet. Use sufficient water. There will be no [indistinct]. Dirty things should be removed, and cleansed inside and outside. Inside cleansed: simply Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is inside clean. And outside, that is also required. You cannot neglect, because outside unclean means inside also you’ll see unclean. If you keep both sides clean, then you will be healthy inside and outside. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇa puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. Abhadrāṇi, all inauspicious things, that will be cleaned. They should be washed. To become sacred thread means he must be śuci. Satya śamaḥ damaḥ śaucam, śaucam. One must be very clean. That is brahminism. Not simply having a sacred thread: “Prabhupāda, give me sacred thread, sacred thread, sacred thread,” everybody. You have got sacred thread, that is certificate, but what is your śaucam? Cleanliness. The brāhmaṇa’s name is śuci. He is always cleansed. Everyone will see, and he’ll immediately feel how cleansed he is. What is the difficulty? God has given sufficient water. For cleanliness you simply require water, that’s all. No antiseptic bottle-Dettol, this, that, so many. You are manufacturing so many rascal things, but ultimately unclean. Ultimately unclean. But by God’s arrangement, by Kṛṣṇa’s arrangement, simple… [end]