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# Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta Madhya 6.142–8, Lecture in Hindi — February 5, 1971, Gorakhpur <audio controls preload="metadata" src="https://media.prabhupada.io/audio/1971/710205CC-GORAKHPUR--Hindi.mp3"></audio> **Devotee:* [introducing recording] Hare **Kṛṣṇa **Hare **Kṛṣṇa, *Caitanya-caritāmṛta* lecture, evening 5th February** 1971 Gorakhpur.Prabhupāda:** So, it is the bona fide statement of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu explaining the difference between the impersonal and personal. Impersonal means the features the Supreme Lord has are nothing material. Just like yesterday we were discussing that Kṛṣṇa committed butter theft, that is not a material quality. that is a spiritual feature, a trait of the spiritual world. Even in the spiritual world same as here everything is present there as well, because *janmādy asya yatah* [[sb/1/1/1|[SB. 1.1.1] ]] everything existing has appeared from spiritual matter, *brahma vastu*. Just like yesterday I gave the example that this stealing propensity has to be there in the spiritual world, how else would it be present here? The difference here is that here it is with material designation, an imitation of the real thing. Just like Śrīdhar Swami says *yasya satyatayā nityāpi satyam eva abhipadyate*, the real thing is there in the spiritual world with the Absolute Truth but its appearance here is its mere imitation, just like there is the example of a mirage which gives the appearance of water within the desert. It is true that water exists somewhere but that which appears to be in the desert isn't the truth. Similarly, all the various kinds of happiness present within this world exist in their real form in the spiritual world but here everything is present in its perverted form. This is the concept, that is why in the *Upanishads* it appears that Parabrahman is being explained to be impersonal, but that actually means that the Supreme is non-material and those who take Him to be impersonal lack clear understanding. The body of the Supreme Lord is *sac-cid-ānanda vigraha* eternal blissful form, full of knowledge. And we cannot conceive that eternal form in our present conditional state and thus, think of it as impersonal. But such is not the form of the Supreme Personality, because it is *sac-cid-ānanda* form, and how is that form *sac-cid-ānanda*? This we cannot experience. *Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ* [[cc/madhya/17/136|[Cc. Madhya 17.136] ]] using this present material senses of ours, we cannot possibly experience the transcendental *sac-cid-ānanda* form of the Supreme Lord. Not just the form of the Supreme Lord but everything related to Him such as His name, His qualities, His opulence everything is transcendental and spiritual, His eternal spiritual opulence. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says *ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa*, the Supreme Personality of Godhead just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says *ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa svayam bhagavān tāre nirākāra kahi*... the Supreme Personality of Godhead is full with all the six opulences, He cannot be impersonal. Just like in English it is said God is Great, but they don't have any experience of His greatness. What kind of a person do we consider to be great? A person who is very wealthy, very strong, he is considered great; a person who is extremely knowledgeable is considered great; and so is a person who is very beautiful. Such qualities make a personality appreciated as great. So, Krsna Himself is full of all opulences, and how can such an entity by impersonal? That is why Caitanya Mahāprabhu is saying *sruti jalpita nirvisesa* [*nirviśeṣa' tāṅre kahe yei śruti-gaṇa*] in the Vedic scriptures wherever there is the description of impersonal form *sa abhidhiyate* that is to express that the Lord is nothing material. Materially speaking we can only experience and speak about things which are in front of us just like we may say that this is not glass, not spectacles but what it actually is we in the material conception are in no position to express ourselves. We think that entities like us have form which stays for a few days, using this experience we think that God has a similar form. According to this calculation God is impersonal, if He doesn't possess a body like us. Just like Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that many times you and I have taken birth but you have forgotten everything whereas I remember. This itself indicates that the form of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa is not the same as Arjuna's. because we don't have any recollection of our past lives, if even we had a body in our past lives. We have forgotten all about it and what we have within this world is temporary if it exists today may not tomorrow. Which is why we forget, but Kṛṣṇa never forgets, this means that His form is made of something different, that is *sac-cid-ānanda vigraha.* The form of the Lord being immaterial is sometimes addressed as impersonal but this impersonal doesn't mean without personality but an eternal form full of bliss and knowledge. The form of the Supreme Lord has a form which is transcendental and therefore some places within the Vedic scriptures He is called formless. But actually, that doesn't mean that God doesn't have a form but they are simply indicating and perpetuating the fact that the Supreme Lord has an eternal form full of bliss and knowledge, s*ac-cid-ānanda vigraha.* They in no way state that God has no form, God has a form but it is not at all like this material form, > īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ > sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ > anādir ādir govindaḥ > sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam > [Bs. 5.1] Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord is the cause of all causes, *janmadyasya yatah*, if He is formless then how can we possibly have a form? If the Lord is Supreme Father, then how can He not have a form if all His children have form? Kṛṣṇa Himself says *aham bija pradah pita*. *Param pita* or the Supreme Father, how is it possible that the Supreme Father can be impersonal? These are the facts. So, wherever the description of formlessness is given it is simpy for the purpose to state that the form of God is nothing like this material form, the form that we have. It is not like that, this is the very principle. > vicāra-yoge sati hanta tāsāṁ > prāyo balīyaḥ sa-viśeṣam eva > [[cc/madhya/6/142|[Cc. Madhya 6.142] ]] If one considers this careful then one will come to the conclusion that God is a personal and He has a form which is eternal and full of knowledge and bliss. Still His form in no way like that of ours, that is why in the Vedic scriptures there is the description of formlessness. > brahma haite janme viśva, brahmete jīvaya > sei brahme punarapi haye yāya laya > [[cc/madhya/6/143|[Cc. Madhya 6.143] ]] And Chaitanya Mahāprabhu says that as there is description in the *Vedas yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante*, that the place from where all the living entities have taken birth from.... As it has been said in the Vedanta *sutras janmādyasya yataḥ*, they come to this verse, it has been said *brahma haite janme viśva*, this world has appeared from Lord Brahma. Brahma is the original cause and the original cause of Brahma is Lord Kṛṣṇa. Just like it has been said in the *Bhagavad-gītā brahmaṇo aham pratiṣṭhā* [[bg/14/27|[Bg. 14.27] ]], *brahma, athāto brahma jijñāsā,* what is the *brahma*? *Janmādy asya yatah*, from where all the things originate, *avyaktāt*, the verdict of all the scriptures... that impersonal Brahman also has its original which is *Kṛṣṇa-brahmaṇo aham pratiṣṭhā*, in the scriptures it has been said; > isvarah bhagavan, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ / anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1] Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes, including Brahman. So, brahma haite jiva, brahman means the living beings. [aside: something fell? What fell?... So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says brahma haite visva, this world has originated from Brahman, *yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante* [*Taittirīya Upaniṣad* 3.1.1] and Brahman is its ultimate position. Ultimately, everything merges into Brahman, *prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikām* [[bg/9/7|[Bg. 9.7] ]], it merges into Brahman which is eternal and this material world, with its nature being *bhutva bhutva praliyate* [[bg/8/19|[Bg. 8.19] ]] just like our body which is working fine now but eventually it will be destroyed. Then we will have to take up another body in this way things are going on in the material world, *bhutva bhutva praliyate*. One originates from Brahman, stays in Brahman and eventually merges in Brahman. So, > 'apādāna,' 'karaṇa,' 'adhikaraṇa'-kāraka tina > bhagavānera saviśeṣe ei tia china > [[cc/madhya/6/144|[Cc. Madhya 6.144] ]] From where the world originates that becomes a cause, where it stays that is called *adhikaraṇa* and where they eventually merge that is another cause, so these are three causes. The *Brahman* or *Parabrahma* entity, is always with from it can never be formless they are all with form. It is said so in the Vedic scriptures, as it has been described here, however, the form is extremely vast, just as it has been said in the *Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad.* > chandāṁsi yajñāḥ kratavo vratāni > bhūtaṁ bhavyaṁ yac ca vedā vadanti > yasmān māyī sṛjate viśvam etat > tasmiṁś cānyo māyayā sanniruddhaḥ These are the words of the *Taittiriya Upanisad* 3.1]: > yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante, > yena jātāni jīvanti, > yat prayanty abhisaṁviśanti, > tad vijijñāsasva tad brahmeti. These are all features of Brahman and in the Vedanta Sutra, it is compressed as *janmadyasya yatah*, and the same thing has been described in the *Śrīmad Bhagavatam*. *Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ*, this is the introduction from the *Śrīmad Bhagavatam.* The first canto of *Bhagavatam* begins right from this point. *'Apādāna,' 'karaṇa,' 'adhikaraṇa'-kāraka tina* > bhagavān bahu haite yabe kaila mana > prākṛta-śaktite tabe kaila vilokana > [[cc/madhya/6/145|[Cc. Madhya 6.145] ]] *Sa aiksata*, God was alone and wanted to be in company *eko bahusyama*, He had the desire to become many at that time the material nature, *aham bija pradah pita*, so the nature was impregnated and many living entities thus appeared. > bhagavān bahu haite yabe kaila mana > prākṛta-śaktite tabe kaila vilokana > [[cc/madhya/6/145|[Cc. Madhya 6.145] ]] There are many potencies of the Supreme Lord among them there is also the material nature, *parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate* [*Cc. Madhya* 13.65, purport], there are many types of potencies but within them three are major, the first is *prakṛta* potency then marginal potency. So, material potency when the Lord thinks about creation. *mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram* [[bg/9/10|[Bg. 9.10] ]], then all these various multitue of living beings appear. > prākṛta-śaktite tabe kaila vilokana > se kāle nāhi janme 'prākṛta' mano-nayana Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is saying that when the Lord glanced sa aikṣata then there was nothing present within the material nature. Therefore, we should understand that the activity of glancing by the Lord is non-material, it is not worldly. This is to be understood that no material thing caused the creation but when the Lord glanced over the material nature, creation came about. In the Bible also it has been said, God said let there be creation and there was creation. So, the Lord God says let there be creation so let there be creation, which means there was no creation in the beginning. Therefore, the saying of God is no worldly saying just like we speak. This is spiritual speaking, other worldly act of speaking, such is the principle. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He says that when the Lord glanced upon the creation, which means that there was no creation until that time. That is why this seeing of the Lord is different than materialistic vision. Just like Sankaracarya says *nārāyaṇaḥ paro 'vyaktāt, vyakta* or manifest creation is *mahat-tattva*, the material nature is called *vyakta* and then there is *avyakta* about which Sankaracarya says that Narayana is *parah avyaktāt*, that He is beyond this material cosmic manifestation. That is why when someone's vision causes the creation to manifest it should be understood that it is no common act of seeing it is *aprakṛta*, supernatural. This is the statement of Caitanya Mahāprabhu: *kāle nāhi janme 'prākṛta' mano-nayana* if one considers carefully he concludes that activities of thinking, feeling and willing cause everything. But the thinking, feeling and willing of the Lord existed before the manifestation of this material world. But after the Lord's thinking, feeling and willing this material world has come into existence. > se kāle nāhi janme 'prākṛta' mano-nayana > ataeva 'aprākṛta' brahmera netra-mana Therefore, this concept appears that the eyes, the mind and the will of the Supreme Lord are nothing material. He has an eternal form full of knowledge and bliss—*saccidanananda vigraha sat* means eternal, everlasting, it never perishes. The form of God is nothing like our own form. That is why if oe thinks that God has a material form, it is considered a great offense: > prākṛta kariyā māne viṣṇu-kalevara > viṣṇu-nindā āra nāhi ihāra upara > [[cc/adi/7/115|[Cc. Adi 7.115] ]] there is no offense greater than offense so committed. Therefore, the Brahman is transcendental and Lord's mind, his will and all His activities are therefore all transcendental. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu says *'brahma'-śabde kahe pūrṇa svayaṁ bhagavān* *brahman*, this means that the perfect entity, the perfect entity is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Himself. Brahman and Paramātmā are not perfect but Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is perfect. *Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate* [[sb/1/2/11|[SB. 1.2.11] ]], so, the object of essence is addressed by some as Paramatma and by some as Bhagavan. Now, where does the word Bhagavan origin from? It signifies the concept of perfection. That is why in the *Bhagavad-gītā* Kṛṣṇa says *bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān* [[bg/7/19|[Bg. 7.19] ]], those who have attained perfect knowledge, who reach the stage after discussing knowledge for many, many lifetimes, come to the conclusion *vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti*, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the origin of all, the original Person, *aham ādir hi devānāṁ* [[bg/10/2|[Bg. 10.2] ]]. The original cause of all causes *janmādyasya yataḥ*, Kṛṣṇa also says, *ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo* [[bg/10/8|[Bg. 10.8] ]], so those who have realized this, the personal form as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, only He can be considered to be perfect in knowledge. As long as one doesn't understand *vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti* [[bg/7/19|[Bg. 7.19] ]] his knowledge cannot be considered perfect. The *Bhagavata* says the same thing *ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas* [[sb/10/2/32|[SB. 10.2.32] ]], there are many so-called saintly persons who think themselves to be free, v*imukta-māninas*, they think that they have become free but actually this is not the case. Here the word is used *māninas*, they think that they have become free. So, they have thought in their minds that they have become spiritual, *brahman*, but actually their knowledge is *aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ*. As long as one doesn't come to the understanding to the platform of Bhagavan their intelligence is considered aviśuddha or contaminated, not *viśuddha* or perfect. *Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas* [[sb/10/2/32|[SB. 10.2.32] ]], the simply think themselves to be liberated. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is saying that among millions of such people if one understands Kṛṣṇa, understanding Kṛṣṇa is not anything ordinary. *Muktānām api siddhānāṁ nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇaḥ* [[sb/6/14/5|[SB. 6.14.5] ]] among millions of liberated personalities one person becomes *nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇaḥ*, becomes a devotee of Narayana. This is the principle *brahma'-śabde kahe pūrṇa svayaṁ bhagavān svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa,-śāstrera pramāṇa* [[cc/madhya/6/147|[Cc. Madhya 6.147] ]]. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the real meaning of Brahman is Bhagavan because *brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti* [[sb/1/2/11|[SB. 1.2.11] ]] *brahma*, only by realizing one's spiritual nature, realizing brahman one's work doesn't finish. > brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā > na śocati na kāṅkṣati > samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu > mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām > [[bg/18/54|[Bg. 18.54] ]] After realizing one's spiritual position of Brahman one needs to experience Paramātmā feature which then is followed by the realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is why Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, that the word Brahma, as Arjuna addressed Kṛṣṇa *paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavan puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ ādyam* [[bg/10/12|[Bg. 10.12] ]], the original person, and the original Brahman, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. This is the verdict of all the scriptures. *Adi brahma anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam* [Bs. 5.1], Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says *brahma 'brahma'-śabde kahe pūrṇa svayaṁ bhagavān*, the complete personality of Godhead the example of this has been cited. Just like when you look at the sky you will see some clouds and some grey area but when you go closer you can see some stars, as we see so many stars. Then upon going further we see that within those stars there are cities and within those cities there are people with their activities, int his way there is everything within the planes such as the sun and the moon and within every other planet. *Sarva-loka-maheśvaram* [[bg/5/29|[Bg. 5.29] ]], He is present everywhere only upon seeing from a distance the variegated features are invisible. When Sputnik was launched, it circumambulated the earth multiple times, from there the earth used to appear like some green object but when one comes closer, one can see all the varieties present within the earth planet. Here the come and get to see that there are so many seas, so many people and animals and structures, everything is personal *sa-viśeṣa*. So, as long as one doesn't get to the Bhagavan platform he fails to understand the variety of the spiritual world. He looks at the spiritual world from a distance and all he can see is *Brahmajyoti* those who go a little further, they see the Paramātmā and those who go the farthest and see from the closest, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Supreme Godhead Himself Kṛṣṇa *svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa, śāstrera pramāṇa* [[cc/madhya/6/147|[Cc. Madhya 6.147] ]], Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that it is the verdict from all the scriptures. Some people ask why is there no word Kṛṣṇa in the *Vedas*, in answer to that Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that evidence of Kṛṣṇa's supremacy is in every scripture and Kṛṣṇa Himself says *vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ* [[bg/15/15|[Bg. 15.15] ]], the goal of all Vedas is to understand Me and for that one should understand *Vedas* under the guidance of a bonafide spiritual master. Then one realizes the fact and this only is the purpose of all the Vedas, to realize Kṛṣṇa. > vedera nigūḍha artha bujhana nā haya > purāṇa-vākye sei artha karaya niścaya > [[cc/madhya/6/148|[Cc. Madhya 6.148] ]] The injunctions and the mantras in *Vedas* are very difficult to understand and to explain them the various puranas were compiled by Śrīla Vyasadeva. Such books are the supplements, simply reading the injunctions of the *Vedas*. Just like there is one sutra of the *Vedas janmādyasya yataḥ*, to explain this there are entire puranas and Mahabharata, *Bhagavad-gītā* and *Ramayana*. Everything has been explained in them all of them are Vedic scriptures. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that after compiling the *Vedas* and the *Mahabharata*, when Vyāsadeva compiled the *Śrīmad Bhagavatam*, in that it has been said *strī-śūdra-dvijabandhūnāṁ trayī na śruti-gocarā* [[sb/1/4/25|[SB. 1.4.25] ]], the women, the *dvijabandhu*, those who cannot understand by their own intellect, that is why Mahabharata and other itihasas are composed. There is *Bhagavad-gītā* within the Mahabharata within which there are Vedic principles said by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself—*sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja* [[bg/18/66|[Bg. 18.66] ]], that is why this is the principle of the *Vedas*. All the Vedas indicate simple towards taking shelter at the lotus feet of the Supreme Persoanlity of Godhead, this is the principle within all the Vedic scriptures: *vedera nigūḍha artha bujhana nā haya* [[cc/madhya/6/148|[Cc. Madhya 6.148] ]]. That is why the *puranas* are composed. And the puranas are of three types, the *sattvika puranas, rajasika puranas* and *tamasika* *puranas*, in the *rajasika* *puranas* various worship of various demigods and goddesses is recommended through the medium of fire sacrifices, among the *sattvika puranas* there is the *Śrīmad Bhagavata* *Mahapurana* and within that only the worship of the Supreme Perosnality of Godhead is recommended—*sattvam param dhimahi*, before composing the *Śrīmad Bhagavatam* this invocation was written within which it was said *satyam param dhimahi*. I meditate upon the Supreme Absolute Truth, *dhimahi*, he is speaking in front of this disciples. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says *purāṇa-vākye sei artha karaya niścaya* because it is not possible to understand the *Vedas* directly. The *śūdras*, *dvijabandhus* and the women have less intelligence in particular. The *dvijabandhus* are like that when a person is born in a house of a *brāhmaṇa* or a *kṣatriya* but his behavior is not up to the mark, like that of a *brāhmaṇa* then he is called *dvijabandhu*. In the *sastras* the *dvijabandhus* are included in the category with the women, so *strī-śūdra-dvijabandhūnāṁ trayī na śruti-gocarā* [[sb/1/4/25|[SB. 1.4.25] ]], these don't have the qualification of understanding the Vedas therefore, there is *Mahabharata* composed which is also known as the fifth Veda. There are four known vedas *Ṛg*, *Yajur*, *Sāma*, and *Atharva* then there is *Mahabharata* which enables the less intelligent class of men to avail the knowledge of essence related to the Absolute Truth. Why is it so? Because *śrutayo vibhinnāḥ* [[cc/madhya/17/186|[Cc. Madhya 17.186] ]] the Vedas have a single opinion but because there are different types of people, to explain to each and every one of them there are different scriptures. Actually, there is no difference, Vedas are one and all of the Vedic scriptures have a single aim, *vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ* [[bg/15/15|[Bg. 15.15] ]], the goal of all Vedic scriptures is to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But those who are still under the influence of the modes of material nature of goodness, passion and ignorance they find it very difficult to understand this. Therefore, in some places within the puranas it has been said if one has the desire of eating meat, they are described the method to do so and attain advancement spiritually. They are allowed to eat meat but not by buying from the market. Then how to eat meat? By worshiping goddess Kali, which has a proper ritualistic procedure regarding worship and sacrifice. But they don't wish to get into those intricacies, they call themselves *śāktas* and say that they have the right to eat meat. In fact, they are neither *śāktas* nor *vaiṣṇavas*, they are simply hedons. There is a proper procedure to perform worship of goddess Kali, how there should be worship and sacrifice but they wish to give all of such rules up, and preach meat eating, and claim themselves to be the real worshipers of Kali. So, there is the recommendation of worship of goddess Kali, it actually is there still it is present for the people to help them give these activities up. just like Candi puja, it is a procedure for drinking liquor, it doesn't mean that one should drink as much as he like, no those who are addicted to drinking liquor, they are encouraged to give this all up by the recommendation of Candi puja. All the rituals are meant for keeping them away from such a habit. Just like our government, it allows some wine shop and charges as much as it likes. You all know that if it takes a rupee for the production of liquor then after excise duty the cost of the same liquor becomes seven rupees. Why? because even if the cost is high, the drunkards will drink liquor. So, the government doesn't want there to be liquor shops for drunkards but they wish to regulate and restrict it by opening shops for the hopeless addicts. Those who are addicted to drinking, by the way of restricted licensing, they are given a little chance, but it is so troublesome and expensive so that the person may finally decide to give up drinking all together. If it is completely restricted then smuggling will decrease. In the scriptures it has been said *loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā nityā hi jantor*, to associate with women, *vyavāyā*, *amiṣa*, means to eat meat and fish, these and those who are inclined towards intoxication, they are to be restricted not to be left uncontrolled. There sure are recommendation of rituals for these things but for whom? For those people who are in the lower modes of nature, of passion and ignorance to gradually elevate them from those lower modes. To do so there should be discussion from the *Bhagavatam*. Just like you all are hearing. By the mercy of the Supreme Lord those who listen *śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ* [[sb/1/2/17|[SB. 1.2.17] ]], if one listens to the pastimes of the Supreme Lord with attention, he will generate piety, if nothing else. And pious *karma* is required. *Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ* and those who perform kirtan they also become pious and so are the listeners, and by having piety, *hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi*, the dirty things present within the heart, accumulated life after life, that is gradually cleared up. For Kṛṣṇa is seated within the heart and when He sees that the person is trying to hear sincerely then He helps such a person *hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti suhṛt satām* [[sb/1/2/17|[SB. 1.2.17] ]], God is a well-wisher for everyone. He himself wants that these people have come to the material world and struggling, *manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati* [[bg/15/7|[Bg. 15.7] ]], these living beings are my parts and parcels. Same as when the father who is a very rich person sees that his son is wandering the streets like a mad person eating whatever garbage it can find, such condition of the son is very difficult for the father. Just see this is my son, he has gone mad, please just bring him somehow back to me. In this way Kṛṣṇa continuously makes effort to bring back the wandering living being, life after life he tries to get them back which is why He gives the scriptures such as the *Bhagavad-gītā.* He Himself comes sometimes, just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and sometimes sends His devotees to go and convince those living beings in this material world. Just go and convince them. the living beings within the material world are asleep and ignorance and the representative of the Lord come and appeal to them *uttiṣṭhata jāgṛta prāpya varaṁ nibodhata* [*Katha Upanisad* 1.3.14], don't remain asleep any longer. Now you have attained this human form of life you should not remain asleep, you have this benediction of human form of life, you have the opportunity of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, so you should pursue that. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu is saying the same thing *bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra* [Cc. *Ādi* 9.41], you have taken birth in the human form of life in this land of Bharata. You should make this life successful and then benefit others. They should go and preach to those who are living like animals and in this way benefit them by delivering them. But what will you benefit by doing welfare for them? Kṛṣṇa will see, that how much we are working hard for them. So, it is the duty of the Supreme Lord to preach devotional service, it is the work of the Supreme Lord by those who work on behalf of the Supreme Lord, just as Kṛṣṇa says *sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja* [[bg/18/66|[Bg. 18.66] ]], those who work hard for Him, they become very dear to the Lord because they are working on His behalf, these are the concepts. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, > vedera nigūḍha artha bujhana nā haya > purāṇa-vākye sei artha karaya niścaya > [[cc/madhya/6/148|[Cc. Madhya 6.148] ]] This should be the concept behind the study of all the vedic scriptures, and it will make our life successful. And once one's life is successful; one should preach it with those who are forgetful about it and hence are suffering. *Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare* [*Prema-vivarta* *6.2*] they think that if we get a lot of sense gratification, actually those who wish to enjoy they senses, call upon themselves a lot of needless tribulation. Such people are nothing but thieves and when thieves get together there is nothing but quarrel everyone wishes to enjoy by stealing the property of the Supreme Lord. This is not at all possible, there are many officers of the Supreme Lord, including Yamarāja and it is not possible for the hedonistic persons to enjoy whimsically, they simply suffer in their attempts. That is why as Kṛṣṇa says, one should give up everything and simply surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Thank you very much.* [Break] **Question:** [indistinct] **Prabhupāda:** Sat means that which is eternal, cit means knowledge, just like this desk is not conscious but this girl is. This is the only difference, if the desk is put here for thousands of years, it will stay right here but the girl will get around, this is called *cit* and *ānanda*, *sat* and *cit* when are present then the spiritual entity will remain joyful. *Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt* [*Vedānta-sūtra* 1.1.12] and the nature of the living entity is blissful because it is a part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and when the Lord is with the spirit soul it is joyful. The part and the whole are always together, they cannot be separated. Just like a part of our body is attached always to the whole body which makes it valuable. If we cut off this body part, then it will lose all its value and will not be worth even a farthing. Similarly, the living entity is the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord but when it is separated from the Supreme Lord then its blissful nature vanishes and one becomes without joy, deeply miserable. **Person:** So, is our position *sac-cid-ānanda*? **Prabhupāda:** The whole of the *sac-cid-ānanda* is the Supreme Lord Himself and we are His part and parcel, that is why I was saying that when a spark comes away from a fire, it extinguishes. **Person:** Why is the living being called *alpānandi*? **Prabhupāda:** Because the living entity is infinitesimal *aṇu* it is a very small part of the Supreme Whole, so when it resumes its position with the whole then it regains its qualities like the Supreme Lord but only 78% of Him. **Person:** 78%? Person (2): not a 100%? **Prabhupāda:** no, not 100%. **Person:** So, if the living being attains perfection even then it will be 78% similar to the Lord? **Prabhupāda:** Yes, this is the verdict of the scriptures for the living entity. **Person:** How do we get this number of 78%? **Prabhupāda:** Those who are knowers of the scriptures they say so, the foolish cannot understand this. Those who are actually knowledgeable they can do so. Just like in the times [indistinct], don't you agree with that? Similarly, *mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ* [[cc/madhya/17/186|[Cc. Madhya 17.186] ]], there are big, big *mahājanas* who say and one also gets knowledge from the vedic scriptures. **Person:** [indistinct] **Prabhupāda:** That is why we share with you the teachings of Caitanya Mahāprabhu not some other ordinary person. He is the authority, *mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ*, there are big-big *mahājana* who have shown us the path. This was explained yesterday as well, just like in the Vedas the cow dung is considered to be pure, this is accepted. If we simply take the authority of the scriptures and don't try to speculate ourselves. What we get from the scriptures is bonafide not that which is deduced by speculation. In the Vedic scriptures, the way it is said should be accepted, if one follows his own speculations it will not be possible. **Person:** Any question? Person 3: Where does the word Rāma come from ? **Prabhupāda:** *Ramante yogino 'nante* [*Madhya* 9.29], the yogis wander in eternal joyful state, that state is known as Rāma. *Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma para brahma iti abhidhiyate*, > ramante yogino 'nante > satyānande cid-ātmani > iti rāma-padenāsau > paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate > [[cc/madhya/9/29|[Cc. Madhya 9.29] ]] So, Rama means the person upon coming in contact with whom one remains forever in immense bliss. That person is Rama. **Person:** So you said that... [?] **Prabhupāda:** Even the person attains the platform of pure knowledge, *cit* but it remains infinitesimally small because it is a part not the whole.. **Person:** So, it will remain small? **Prabhupāda:** It sure will. **Person:** regardless of how advanced he may become? **Prabhupāda:** [aside: please let him finish.] Just like I gave the example that the spark coming out of the fire, it is also fire with the qualities of fire but the spark even though little can but whatever it comes in contact with, but when it falls in the water it extinguishes. **Person:** So the point is that this brahma... **Prabhupāda:** Yes, one can wet it in water or dry it in the wind but when brought into the contact of ifre it will but same as firewood. The wet wood when is dried up, it can be reignited. **Person:** But even in water... **Prabhupāda:** by falling into the water... just like within a fire there are many sparks but the spark sometimes is separated and if they fall on dry grass then they will start fire on its own. But if it falls on the ground it will be extinguished. And if it falls into the water it will be gone completely, all the fiery behavior. In this way when the livng entities fall into the material world and come in contact with the three modes of material nature goodness, passion and ignorance. If he stays in the mode of goodness then he gets elevated to the platform of Brahman, remains in marginal position if in mode of passion and becomes completely oblivious when in ignorance. So, to vanquish these lower modes of passion and ignorance the procedure is given in the scriptures, *śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ* [[sb/1/2/17|[SB. 1.2.17] ]] by hearing constantly—similar to how the wood is dried up and starts to burn. This si the drying process similar to the drying process of wood. And you can see the evidence of their method, all these Americans and Britishers they were all mischievous. By our calculation they used to consume liquor, womanizers, gamblers and meat eaters. Simply by hearing all their bad habits died away. They have given up smoking even drinking coffee, and tea. They have given up all of this. Now, you see that they are worshiping the deities, chanting hare Kṛṣṇa, and when such a spark keeps on burning, it reaches perfection and becomes fire. The firewood, when is burnt, it emits smoke in the beginning, but when it burns like fire then you can perform a sacrifice or run an engine, anything you like but in the beginning it takes time. **Person:** How to fix our mind at the lotus feet of the Lord? Can you please... **Prabhupāda:** You should come and live with us. We will train you. **Person:** Whenever you come here, we feel inspired very much... **Prabhupāda:** that is why we are asking you come and stay with us. Then this chanting of the names will not stop. If you wish to keep chanting then come to this center we have started here, all over Europe, America and all over the world should not stop. **Person:** So, should we give up our homes? **Prabhupāda:** No, there is no need of giving up one's work. Just like we have our Dr. Rao here, has he given up this work? One needs to be trained, just like Arjuna was a fighter before and after hearing the *Bhagavad-gītā*. Did he give up fighting after hearing the *Gītā*? Why do you think like that? **Person:** There is a big difference, when all the *karmi* people... [indistinct]. **Prabhupāda:** There is no need of giving it up *sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir* [[sb/10/14/3|[SB. 10.14.3] ]], everyone should stay at their places, simply nicely hear the Vedic scriptures by their ears and simply by hearing everything will be accomplished. It has been seen that those who are engaged in the service of the Lord they are never touched by the influence of *maya*—*mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te* [[bg/7/14|[Bg. 7.14] ]], *maya* cannot even touch them, *maya* cannot even come in front of such people. Just like if a person is not a criminal why will the police approach him? If you never steal what will the police have to do with you? But when you steal, then the police will surely come after you. So, all these thieves, they wish to enjoy the property of God showing Him the thumb in return. All these are surely thieves, they will certainly be troubled by *maya*. So, if we give up thieving, *maya* will give up coming after us. But may people wish to enjoy Lord's property without giving Him anything in return. Just like you have this electric light, which you pay the bill for every month but all of us take the light from the sun, do we pay its bill? So, aren't we all thieves? Say? So everyone is taking from God, *eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān* [*Kaṭha Upaniṣad* 2.2.13], everyone is being maintained by the Lord. **Person:** Is God in scarcity of these things?... **Prabhupāda:** God has no need similar to how the government has no need but if you don't pay tax then you will become thief. The government doesn't run on two pennies of tax you give but if you don't pay your taxes you shall be criminal. And if you become a criminal the government will take care of you, what scarcity do you have? But if you don't pay your taxes you shall be considered a criminal. **Person:** How can we give taxes to God? **Prabhupāda:** *Yajña yajña vidhi yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ* [[bg/3/9|[Bg. 3.9] ]], if you perform *yajña* by engaging in this *Sankirtan yajña yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ* [[sb/11/5/32|[SB. 11.5.32] ]], this is yajña that is why the procedure of yajña is given. All the humans need to engage in such sacrifices, all the deeds men perform they should be done as performance of sacrifice otherwise once actions will not achieve purification. **Person:** [indistinct] **Prabhupāda:** Is there any system of sacrifice in the scriptures? No? Yes? If you wish to satisfy all the demigods by performance of *yajña*, this has been spoken of in the *Bhagavad-gītā*, you satisfy Lord Brahma through a yajña that is a tax. If you have earned something you should give 50% for *yajña*, then 25% for your family and 25% you should reserve for some emergency. This is the system of the scriptures. Not like one should spend all of in in consumption. You understand this right? So, > yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo > mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ > bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā > ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt > [[bg/3/13|[Bg. 3.13] ]] Those who simply eat for their enjoyment they simply eat sin, they will remain miserable, nothing else. One should cook for sure but should offer it all in the yajña for the Lord and take His remnants, this will deliver you. Don't we eat? Don't you eat have the same way we do? Don't you understand the meaning of *prasāda*? Simply, to accept what you have offered to the Lord *yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante* [[bg/3/13|[Bg. 3.13] ]], it will vanquish all your sins. What is the difference between eating *halva* here and from the market? *Yajña yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo*, this *halva* will remove all your sins and that halva will increase your sin. There is no restriction is eating and drinking, *āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat* [*Hitopadeśa* 25], these are required for our body. **Person:** So, that should be eaten?... **Prabhupāda:** Yes, this eating is Kṛṣṇa consciousness *budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ* [[bg/10/8|[Bg. 10.8] ]], in the *Bhagavad-gītā* it has been said *ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ* [[bg/10/8|[Bg. 10.8] ]], those who are foolish they cannot understand but those who are factually intelligence *budhā*, they *bhava samanvitāḥ*, they act accordingly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Giving up? what can you possibly give up. What do you even have? You don't even own this body? This mood of using this body as a gift given by the Lord, that we have received it by the mercy of the Lord, and I will use it thanking the Lord, this shall accomplish your sacrifice. There is no need of giving up anything *nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate*, if you simply accept everything with contact with God, that is called *yukta vairagya*. Now, see we are all *sannyasis*, why don't you all do the same. But some of your are saffron clad and some are wearing white. But all of us are wearing clothes, we have not given them up. we cannot possibly give up anything, we will have to accept everything that Kṛṣṇa has given us. All we have to understand is that everything is God's property. One should not mistakenly think it his personal property. That's all. Here you all are sitting, you know that this is Kṛṣṇa's temple, there will be no dispute, but if someone tries to claim it for himself then the quarrel shall start. **Person:** [indistinct]\| **Prabhupāda:** *Aham mameti, janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti* [[sb/5/5/8|[SB. 5.5.8] ]], *janasya mohoyam*, this is the illusion, I and mine. So, all this is going on in the world is actually illusion, I am a man, a woman this is my family, this is my society nothing else. This is called *maya*. **Person:** So, in this world this is... **Prabhupāda:** This is going on, so the influence of *maya*, to become free from it is illusion. That is called illusion when we will understand that nothing belongs to us everything belongs to God, that will be *svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ* [[sb/2/10/6|[SB. 2.10.6] ]], everything belongs to God and I belong to God, this realization is called liberation, that's all. *Mukti hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa avasthitiḥ* [[sb/2/10/6|[SB. 2.10.6] ]], currently we are mistaken in our consideration, identifying with different things. When we will become situated in our original position we will realize that everything belongs not to us but to God. Liberation doesn't mean that we have two hands now we will have four later. No, only the consciousness needs to be changed. Currently, we illusioned by *aham mameti*, this needs to be broken. We don't own anything and we don't have any identity other than the servant of the Supreme Lord. This is all we have to understand. Maya on the other hand provokes the living beings making them think that they themselves are God. This is another conspiracy of maya to keep the living beings captivated. As long as one doesn't understand his position and keeps thinking himself to be God. Those who are *jnanis bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate* [[bg/7/19|[Bg. 7.19] ]], some *jnanis* they keep thinking that they are God themselves due to some qualities they develop they think that they are God. That also is *maya*. **Person:** Svamiji, what is ego? **Prabhupāda:** Ego means I. illusion or maya means that which is not real. Now, if you sit at home thinking that you have become a king. That is not real, that is illusion, *maya*. **Person:** [indistinct] **Prabhupāda:** One who is a king he doesn't need to think that he is the king. He is king in fact. Those who are not king they have to think. But that is a mistake. One who is actually rich doesn't have to think himself rich, or work hard for the same? He is rich already. Those who don't have money they wish to try and get some to become rich. **Person:** [indistinct] **Prabhupāda:** this will be understood gradually by continuous hearing. **Person:** [indistinct] **Prabhupāda:** *Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ* [[sb/3/25/25|[SB. 3.25.25] ]], when a person hears in good association *satsanga*, then the words of God, *hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanā*. Upon hearing it pleases the ears and placates one's heard. *Taj-joṣaṇād* when a person hears them *taj-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani śraddhā ratir bhaktir anukramiṣyati* [[sb/3/25/25|[SB. 3.25.25] ]], when one hears them gradually one develops *śraddha rati bhakti āsakti bhāva*, this is generated. > ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu- > saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā > tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt > tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ > athāsaktis > Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu [1.4.15-16] This is the chain of development, *ādau śraddha* just like some of you have come out of your faith, this faith *sraddha* should be developed. Gradually, one will accomplish his mission, *sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ*, this is the order to gradually reach love for Godhead, this is the order *tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt*, this should be accepted. This order once accepted one will take one to the ultimate goal, just like you go to schools or college, that is an order, which will gradually make the person qualified one day. Gradually if one follows the procedure one will accomplish the desired goal. That order has been given by the great saintly persons, and following them will help us accomplish our purpose. This is what Caitanya Mahāprabhu is explaining. If you listen to it and follow it you accomplish your goal. His instructions are for everyone. Not for someone specific but for everyone. **Person:** Just like you have said... **Prabhupāda:** All of these who have come here, they have come here are hearing. Why else this religious system increasing? **Person:** No, no it is not like that, there is some mind diversion going on for some time. **Prabhupāda:** That is why I am asking you to stay here. Why don't you? **Person:** Here you simply worship morning and evening? That's all? **Prabhupāda:** This is the subject matter of our preaching. Just like we are doing it you should also come here learn and practice it in your homes. That's all, there is no need of giving anything up. **Person:** [indistinct] **Prabhupāda:** You discuss things with you kids, you family. You do the same there is no difficulty. Everything has been given in the scriptures. [End]