# Room Conversation with Hanuman Prasad Poddar [Hindi and English] — February 3, 1971, Gorakhpur <audio controls preload="metadata" src="https://media.prabhupada.io/audio/1971/710203R1-GORAKHPUR.mp3"></audio> **Prabhupāda:** Ratha-yātrā. **Hanuman:** [Transl.The foreigners are also joining.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. They themselves arrange everything there.] **Hanuman:** [Transl.As a *gṛhastha* what could I do? It is the duty of the *ācārya* to chant the holy name of the Supreme Lord and to render devotional service unto Him.] **Prabhupāda:* [Transl.Look here, he is a *gṛhastha*. He is a *sannyāsī*. I brought two samples. Everyone is working together. *Gṛhasthas* we have.] > kibā vipra, kibā nyāsī, śūdra kene naya > yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya > [[cc/madhya/8/128|[Cc. Madhya 8.128] ]] **Hanuman:** [Transl.Sure. Certainly.] **Prabhupāda:** "One has to learn the science of Kṛṣṇa, then he becomes spiritual master. It does not matter whether a *sannyāsī* or a *gṛhastha*." [Transl.Just like you are a *gṛhastha*, you are] 1000 times better than so many *sannyāsīs* [laughs]. [Transl.Many of Mahāprabhu's great disciples were *gṛhasthas*.] Nityānanda prabhu-*gṛhastha*, Advaita prabhu-*gṛhastha*, [Transl.He Himself was a *gṛhastha*. *Gṛhastha* doesn't mean one is fallen. Mahāprabhu said this.] > kibā vipra, kibā nyāsī, śūdra kene naya > yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya > [[cc/madhya/8/128|[Cc. Madhya 8.128] ]] **Hanuman:** [Transl. Definitely. You are right.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.From my experience in preaching in the west it confirms that this Mahāprabhu's movement is very potent. If it is done here systematically, all unauthorised propagandas will be stopped.] **Hanuman:** [Transl.Here people have different taste, different opinions...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That is the problem. Here *Yata mata tata patha*: as many opinions as many ways.] **Hanuman:* [Transl.You are a devotee. If you worship Hari with devotion Indian people will understand what is going on.] **Prabhupāda:** *Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ* [[bg/10/8|[Bg. 10.8] ]] **Hanuman:** [Transl.But after all when other people will see they will see with their own eyes.] > Ataḥśrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi > na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ > [[cc/madhya/17/136|[Cc. Madhya 17.136] ]] **Hanuman:** [Transl. As you see so shall be the object of vision. The act of seeing creates the object of vision. How long will you be staying here?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.In India?] **Hanuman:** [Transl. No, in Gorakhpur?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Gorakhpur? Like that we have got four, five days program. Then whatever God desires.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. I was expecting you to stay here. I told my people to take care of you and your devotees.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. If we require to stay longer here then your place is there. How many persons can be accommodated here in your place?] **Hanuman:** [Transl. How many of you would like to stay?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.[laughs] We are about, say, thirty-two people.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. You can stay here. This is your house. If devotees come to your house that means it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.Oh! That means it is our house! [laughs] Like government superviser. Just as government servants can stay in government rest house. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa we have got claim.] [laughs] **Hanuman:** [Transl.Everything belongs to Him only.] **Prabhupāda:** *īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam* [*Īśo mantra* 1] [Transl. How many grandsons do you have? One?] **Hanuman:** [Transl. Two. Here is one and that is another one.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.And is this one the son of your grandson?] **Hanuman:** [Transl. No, he is not my grandson's son, but one of the family member's son. This is *vaṁṣī-śikṣā*. Śrī Kṛṣṇa is teaching Rādhā how to play flute.] **Prabhupāda:* [Transl. Who painted this picture?] **Hanuman:** [Transl.One of the girls painted it. One of our family girl. [calls her] Oh, Nisha, you painted this, no? Paresh's wife. She is coming. Paresh's wife painted it.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.Oh! She is qualified!] **Hanuman:** [Transl. She painted.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.Is she your grand daughter?] **Hanuman:** [Transl. She came with her mother-in-law. Paresh's mother. She came here on 4th. Pavitra also lives here.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. She came with her. Kailash has two mothers.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. Yes. Two mothers. The younger mother is here.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. She is very nice woman. She took care of us very nicely. Live long. The longer people like you live others will be benefitted.] **Hanuman:** [Transl.As He wishes.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. They inquired about Parīkṣit Mahārāja...He lived only for the benefit of people. Then why did he give up his body untimely? This was the question. Why should those, who, by their presence can benefit people of the world, voluntarily give up their bodies? A question was raised like this.] *Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau* [Transl. Gosvāmīs. It is stated about the Gosvāmīs.] > nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau > lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau > rādhā-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau > vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau > [Śrī Śrī Ṣaḍ-gosvāmy-aṣṭaka 2] *lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau* [Transl. The lives of the *sādhus* and *vaiṣṇavas* are meant for *para-upakāra*: doing welfare for others.] *patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ* [Śrī vaiṣṇava praṇati.] **Hanuman:** [Transl.In order to benefit the people Caitanya Mahāprabhu brought this and His devotees are spreading. His devotees are great. What can we do? He is making everything happen. Nobody is greater than Him and equal to Him.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That's true. One thing is that Bhagavān is saying,] māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ > striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim [[bg/9/32|[Bg. 9.32] ]] Those who are *pāpa-yoni*, if they take shelter of Me they too will attain the supreme destination.] **Hanuman:* [Transl.Yes, shelter of God.] kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā > bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā [[bg/9/33|[Bg. 9.33] ]] [Transl.Shouldn't the sinful species of this world be delivered? Is it necessary or not?] **Hanuman:** [Transl.Yes, necessary, must.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That is why Mahāprabhu had ordered,] > bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra > janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra > [Cc Ādi9.41] **Hanuman:** [Transl.We are simply sitting idle and watching. That's all.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.Therefore our this process, Mahāprabhu's process to deliver the sinful fallen souls it is the duty of the Indian.] It is the duty of every Indian. **Hanuman:** [Transl. The devotees have no personal work to do.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Render service to Bhagavān.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. This is their service to Bhagavān.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. This is their service to Bhagavān. Bhagavān says,] > sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [[bg/18/66|[Bg. 18.66] ]] [Transl.And we are saying give up everything and become devotees of Kṛṣṇa.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. That Bhagavān is asking, no.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. What Bhagavān is saying we are repeating. Therefore we are representative of Bhagavān.] [laughs] **Hanuman:** [Transl. Certainly.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. We are canvassing. What do you say Gosāi?] We are canvassing. **Gosai:** [Transl.What are you canvassing?] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.That Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa,] *kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam* *[[sb/1/3/28|[SB. 1.3.28] ]] *sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja* [[bg/18/66|[Bg. 18.66] ]], *man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru* [[bg/18/65|[Bg. 18.65] ]] [Transl. According to Dr. Rādhākṛṣnan the meaning of this *śloka* is that it is not to the person Kṛṣṇa but He who is inside Kṛṣṇa is to be meditated upon. Bhagavān is saying *man-manā bhava mad-bhakto*, and Rādhākṛṣnan is saying it upside down. Is there any difference between Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's inside. Kṛṣṇa's body and Kṛṣṇa's soul are different? He is absolute.] **Hanuman:* [Transl. Those who accept God mixed with *māyā*, they say such things.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. How can God be mixed with *māyā*?] **Hanuman:** [Transl. They say that since God is imaginary after all. Then what is the relationship of the imaginary God with the real God? He lives within. He is situated inside.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. We don't accept that conclusion. That is not Mahāprabhu's conclusion.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. That is *Gītā*. Only bhagavān knows what He said in *Gītā*. We don't know. As far as we understand Gītā says that by practicing *sādhana* one has to attain the Brahman stage.] ...*brahma-bhūyāya kalpate* [[bg/14/26|[Bg. 14.26] ]] [Transl. Then the next stage is *brahma-bhūtaḥ*.] > brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā > na śocati na kāṅkṣati > samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu > mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām > [[bg/18/54|[Bg. 18.54] ]] **Prabhupāda:** Ah. **Hanuman:* [Transl.You will attain devotional service unto Me.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That stage will come after attaining the *brahma-bhūta* platform.] **Hanuman:* [Transl. Yes. After. Not immediately. Then one will enter into līlā.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. But there is one point here.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. He will enter into *līlā*.] *Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ* [[bg/18/55|[Bg. 18.55] ]] [Transl.It means that until you realize the almighty Brahman you don't know the complete Brahman.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Your knowledge is not complete.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. Not complete.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.That's why,] > bahūnāṁ janmanām ante > jñānavān māṁ prapadyate > [[bg/7/19|[Bg. 7.19] ]] **Hanuman:** *māṁ prapadyate.* **Prabhupāda:** *sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ* [Transl.Only when one surrenders to Bhagavan he is really knowledgeable.] **Hanuman:** *māṁ vetti, māṁ vetti.. manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānāṁ* [[bg/7/3|[Bg. 7.3] ]] *siddhānām siddhānāṁ.* **Prabhupāda:** Ah. **Hanuman:** *kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ, siddhānām jñānināṁ.* **Prabhupāda:** No, *Siddhānāṁ muktānām.* **Hanuman:** [Transl.Yes. Among those who have become liberated by attaining knowledge one may know Me.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.That is also stated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. *Koṭi-jñāni-madhye eka mukta śreṣṭha.*] [[cc/madhya/19/148|[Cc. Madhya 19.148] ]] **Hanuman:** [Transl. That person is defined here, *bhaktyā mām abhijānāti*. *Abhijānāti*. There is a *śloka* in *Ādi Purāṇa*, *Gopīkā saundarya*. > man-māhātmyaṁ mat-saparyāṁ > mac-chraddhāṁ man-mano-gatam > jānanti gopikāḥ pārtha > nānye jānanti tattvataḥ > [Cc Ādi4.213] [Transl. None else know Him in truth. The beauty of the gopīs...] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That's right. The process of the *gopīkās'* *bhajana* is according to Mahāprabhu, the highest type of worship. *Ramyā kācid upāsanā vraja-vadhū-vargeṇā yā kalpitā* [*Caitanya-mañjusā*]. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, the son of Nanda Mahārāja, is to be worshiped along with His transcendental abode, Vṛndāvana. The most pleasing form of worship for the Lord is that which was performed by the *gopīs* of Vṛndāvaṇa. *Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam* is the spotless authority on everything, and pure love of God is the ultimate goal of life for all men. These statements, for which we have the highest regard, are the opinion of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.* [Transl. There is no higher worship than that.] **Hanuman:** [Transl.In *Nārada-bhakti-sūtra*, Nārada has said, *yathā vraja-gopikānām* [*Sūtra* 21] The cowherd women of Vraja are an example of pure *bhakti*. [Transl.This is written in the *sūtra*.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.So These things they are accepting now. If we, from our side here, present it to them in an organised way then India will be immensely benefitted. So, all of you kindly help in this endeavour. We have nothing else to offer them. If we want to offer material science that is not possible. They are so advanced that we are 100 years back. That will not yield anything. We need to give our own treasury.] **Hanuman:** [Transl.That's what they want also.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. They want.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. They want.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl.Wanting. They accepted that India has a very high standard culture. And they were eager for it. Not only for them but it can be established in India that *kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam* [[sb/1/3/28|[SB. 1.3.28] ]] [Transl. You take from here whatever books you want. At least keep these two.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. I already have some. I am writing a book in English.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. What book are you writing?] **Hanuman:** [Transl."*Kṛṣṇa bhāvanāmṛtera paricaya.*" The introduction of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.] **Prabhupāda:* [Transl.Oh. That is about us.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. The same subject.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Nectar of Devotion. You will find photograph in all of our books.] **Hanuman:** [Transl. Yes, I can see.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. Like this. Many books we have. And we sell many records. Didn't they send you some?] [aside:]You have brought some record here? **Yaśodānandana:** It's in my other case, two records I have got. **Prabhupāda:** Oh. **Yaśodānandana:** Two copies of Govinda. And some books. **Prabhupāda:** Reading them and keep them in the library. **Hanuman:** [Transl. Very good.] **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. And Kṛṣṇa book, you will be happy by seeing the pictures of our Kṛṣṇa book. We are selling simply by showing the pictures.] In Ratha-yātrā Festival in one hour we sold about 24 copies. Although it is very highly priced, eight dollars. [Transl. But in America it's nothing! it is cheaper. In our country eight dollar is so much. So for today I take your leave. You also take rest.] **Yasodanandana:** [indistinct] **Prabhupāda:** Oh he has got. If you got volume two? [Transl. As soon as we get we will send it.] **Yaśodānandana:** I gave him one already. **Prabhupāda:** [Transl. That's volume one. Volume two.] **Hanuman:** [Transl.Yes, send me.] **Prabhupāda:** ... *cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ* [[bg/6/22|[Bg. 6.22] ]] *Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati* [*Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad* 1.3. [Transl. By knowing Kṛṣṇa there will be nothing left to know. Everything is accomplished. Complete knowledge. Okay then.] [end]