Room Conversation

Type:
Room Conversation
Date:
April 27
Year:
1969
Place:
Boston

 

Prabhupāda: So we take account of past, present, future of this creation. When I say, “Some years ago I was there,” that means within this creation. It does not go some years in your past creation. Do you follow what I say? Are you following what I am saying? 

Devotee [1] [woman]: Yes. 

Prabhupāda: You are feeling all right? Satsvarūpa? 

Satsvarūpa: Yes. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. You did not go to the airport? 

Satsvarūpa: No. I gave the lecture that was cancelled at… 

Prabhupāda: Oh. Lecture? 

Satsvarūpa: You were supposed to give a lecture today, but because you gave a lecture last night in Buffalo, we cancelled it and I went instead. 

Prabhupāda: So you lectured there? That’s nice. Now you have to lecture. I will have to retire. [chuckles] I want that all my students now should be prepared. Puruṣottama, you sit down. You are standing. You come here. Sit down. When, at present, when we speak of past, present, future, we refer to this particular creation of my body. Is it not? Similarly, “never return back.” “Never return back” means… What is your question? I… missing point. Whose question it…? Yes. 

Devotee (1): What is the question? That if we’ve never been with Kṛṣṇa, if we’ve never been in Kṛṣṇaloka, then how is it that we start remembering His pastimes and His form? 

Prabhupāda: You remember Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes by hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You can hear Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes. That you can remember. 

Devotee (1): But how can we remember if we’ve never known them before? 

Prabhupāda: How you can remember? 

Devotee (1): If we haven’t known it. 

Prabhupāda: You can know it by hearing from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Why we are citing so many scriptures, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā? Just to remember. 

Devotee (1): Just to remember? 

Prabhupāda: Something you forget, but I tell you repeatedly, you hear; you remember. Is it not? Hear something you have forgotten completely, and I remind you constantly. Then don’t you remember? 

Devotee (1): Yes. But I don’t understand how is it that we forgot it… How can we remember… 

Prabhupāda: Forgot, you forgot. That is your nature. You forget so many things. You cannot remember what you were doing exactly at this time yesterday. Can you remember immediately? Forgetfulness is our nature. We are very minute; therefore our…, we are subjected to the quality of forgetfulness. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was asking Kṛṣṇa that “How I can believe that you told this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to Vivasvān?” He said that “In… I, first of all, I told to Vivasvān.” So in reply to that question, Kṛṣṇa said that “Both you and I had many, many births before, but you have forgotten; I remember.” That is the difference between the Supreme Lord and ourself. He does not forget. He remembers everything, past, present, future, all, but we forget. That is the difference between God and living entity. We are subjected to forgetfulness. So we forget; again, if it is reminded, we remind. That is our nature. So at the present moment we are forgetful of our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And then, by good association, by constant chanting, hearing, remembering, we again revoke our old consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So forgetfulness is not wonderful. It is natural. We forget. But if we keep constant touch, we may not forget. Therefore this association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotees, and constant repetition of the chanting, scripture, that will keep us intact without forgetting. Satataṁ kirtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]plugin-autotooltip__small plugin-autotooltip_bigBhagavad-gītā As It Is 9.14

Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.
. We have to continue this service constantly. Then we shall not forget. Forgetfulness is not wonderful. That is our nature. That is our nature. And that is the difference between ourself and God. God does not forget. We forget. We are claiming, some of us, foolishly claiming, that “I am God, but I forget.” God does not forget. Therefore I am not God. Is that clear? That is the difference between living jīva and Śiva, God. He does not forget. In the Bhagavad-gītā He says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni: [Bg. 7.26]plugin-autotooltip__small plugin-autotooltip_bigBhagavad-gītā As It Is 7.26

O Arjuna, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, I know everything that has happened in the past, all that is happening in the present, and all things that are yet to come. I also know all living entities; but Me no one knows.
“I know everything of this present, past, future, everything.” But we do not know. We have forgotten. In our daily life, in our childhood, so many things we did. We don’t remember. But our parents may remember that as a child, that we did this. So forgetfulness is our nature. But if we keep constant touch with Kṛṣṇa, then He will give us remembrance. So sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo [Bg. 15.15]plugin-autotooltip__small plugin-autotooltip_bigBhagavad-gītā As It Is 15.15

I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.
. Kṛṣṇa says in the Fifteenth Chapter. Now you read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. In our examination next January… Yes. From Bhagavad-gītā for title of bhakti-śāstrī. Now we have to make our organization regularly a spiritual institution so that we may be recognized, and our students may be freed from this draft board requisition. That I am… Next step is going on. [Break] Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Puruṣottama? Why don’t you get that tape? Yes. 

Puruṣottama: Oh. 

Prabhupāda: Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate. This is from Upaniṣad. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki-jnana-bala-kriya ca [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]plugin-autotooltip__small plugin-autotooltip_bigŚrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 13.65

Indeed, the Personality of Godhead forgot Himself in the course of His transcendental pastimes, but His internal potency [līlā-śakti], knowing the intentions of the Lord, made all arrangements.
. It is said that nobody is seeing… This is called research. You are accepting any nonsense as God, and they do not have any information from the…, that God means na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate: “God has nothing to do, no responsibility. Nobody is found greater than Him.” So if this Vedic injunction is followed, if somebody is claiming, “I am God,” we have to see whether he has nothing to do and whether nobody is greater than him. And these two tests will make him false immediately. He has to prove that nobody is greater than… Even contemporary… Suppose I am claiming I am God. So I have to show that at the present moment, throughout the whole world, apart from universe, nobody is greater than me. Then I am… Will these pretenders be able to show that nobody is greater than him? This is a simple test. And na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate: “And he has nothing to do.” There are so many things to test who is God. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. Nobody shall be richer than him; nobody shall be stronger than him; nobody shall be wiser than him; nobody shall be beautiful than him. So these things have to be tested, whether he is God. And simply if I claim, “Oh, I am God,” there will… No testament? If I say, “I am President Nixon,” will you accept it? If you don’t accept it, even an ordinary President Nixon, without testing his credentials, how you will accept a false man as God without testing? You must know what is that test. Credential. He must present credential. Just like when some ambassador comes to a foreign country, there is a ceremony that that ambassador must be recognized by the governor or the governor-general in that state, and he has to place his credentials, similarly, anybody is claiming as God, he has to place his credentials. And what is that credential? The test is there in the Upaniṣad, in the Bhagavad-gītā and so many, all literatures, Brahma-saṁhitā, Vedānta-sūtra, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam first it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]plugin-autotooltip__small plugin-autotooltip_bigŚrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.1.1

O my Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, son of Vasudeva, O all-pervading Personality of Godhead, I offer my respectful obeisances unto You. I meditate upon Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa because He is the Absolute Truth and the primeval cause of all causes of the creation, sustenance and destruction of the manifested universes. He is directly and indirectly conscious of all manifestations, and He is independent because there is no other cause beyond Him. It is He only who first imparted the Vedic knowledge unto the heart of Brahmājī, the original living being. By Him even the great sages and demigods are placed into illusion, as one is bewildered by the illusory representations of water seen in fire, or land seen on water. Only because of Him do the material universes, temporarily manifested by the reactions of the three modes of nature, appear factual, although they are unreal. I therefore meditate upon Him, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, who is eternally existent in the transcendental abode, which is forever free from the illusory representations of the material world. I meditate upon Him, for He is the Absolute Truth.
. Svarāṭ, svarāṭ means fully independent. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. The Supreme Truth, fully independent. We are not fully independent. And just now, if I feel a little toothache, I will have to go to a doctor. So how can I claim that I am God? God’s first qualification is fully independent, svarāṭ. Abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means fully cognizant of everything. What is that? 

Puruṣottama: Lugdoos. 

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. All right. Take. Distribute little. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Just like Kṛṣṇa. He is the Lord, but He has nothing to do. He is simply enjoying with His friends, with Radharani, with cowherds boy, with gopīs. That is greatness. He has nothing to think, “How to provide?” [chuckles] That is greatness. He is taking the cows as a sporting. You see? And when He was called for killing Kaṁsa, He left everything, renounced everything. Aiśvarya samagrasya yaśasaḥ… Everything in full, so much love, so much everything, but at once, in a moment, He renounced everything, went to…, left Vṛndāvana, and all these devotees, they began to cry for Kṛṣṇa for the rest of life. And whenever Kṛṣṇa was reminded, oh, He will say, “I am very soon coming. Don’t worry. I am very soon coming.” [chuckles] You see? 

Girl: Have took, Your Grace? 

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have taken. You take. You know how to make lugdoo? Himavatī is good. [chuckles] She learned many things about… We have got another nice girl in Buffalo. I have given her name… What is? Sadā? 

Pradyumna: Sadānandinī. 

Prabhupāda: A very nice girl. Yes. Always chanting and dancing and always jolly. [chuckling] Very nice girl. You know her? No. She has recently joined. She is good devotee, good worker, very nice. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. Anyone who comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness immediately becomes beautiful in every respect. [Break] 

Haṁsadūta: Puruṣottama. 

Prabhupāda: How many rose trees Jayānanda has… 

Puruṣottama: 108. 

Prabhupāda: 108. So at least 108 flowers we’ll have daily. Yes. So it is very nice. Our Hawaii, tulasi grows very nice. 

Haṁsadūta: Hawaii. They have a new place? 

Prabhupāda: Yes, the place where now Govinda dāsī is staying, a very nice place, just on the seaside. And the house is two stories, entire house among the fig trees. There is nice arrangement. So you have any correspondence with her? 

Jadurāṇī: A little. 

Prabhupāda: So what does she say? 

Jadurāṇī: She said the flowers weren’t out yet, but that was months ago. We have some mail for you. One letter is from her with up-to-date news. 

Prabhupāda: Oh. Some devotees are coming. And in Honolulu, two boys, they are also doing. In Hawaii there are two branches now. Yes. One at Honolulu, one at Kauai. Kauai. That island’s name is Oahu. Hawaii has five islands’ stretch, and this is called Oahu. Oahu island, one side, Honolulu, and one side… This island means hill. And the valley of the hills are utilized for residential purposes. So all sides, Pacific Ocean. And there is ample production of sugar cane and pineapple. I was chewing sugar cane as it is. Yes. And there is so many coconut trees, palm trees, and mango. In mango season they throw away mangos. So I have asked Govinda dāsī that “You make mango pulp and dry it and send it.” So they are doing nice, husband and wife, Gaurasundara, yes, trying their best. I do not know whether they are working now. 

Himāvatī: Govinda dāsī is working. 

Prabhupāda: Working. She can work. She can earn $400 at least. 

Haṁsadūta: Typing? 

Prabhupāda: Yes. She is good typist. 

Haṁsadūta: We have one boy in Montreal. He says that he wants to go to Florida the first of May. His father is a real estate man. So he wants to get a job and then get a temple, and he wants someone to come there. He said me preferably. 

Prabhupāda: All right. This South, North Carolina, they are also doing… [laughs] 

Haṁsadūta: He wants to go to Palm Beach. Palm Beach is the richest place in the country. 

Prabhupāda: That’s all right. That’s all right. So chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and everything will be all right. And Buffalo is also doing nice. Oh, yes. The students are educated circle. They are taking interest, both the boys and girls. And three meetings I attended. Every meeting was full, two hundred boys and girls. They were dancing, chanting, asking very intelligent questions. And Rūpānuga is holding class. There will be some examination of the students. They accept papers. Yes. Some Indians are coming from long distance. One Indian gentleman, he came to see me from, what is that place? Ninety-two miles away from Buffalo. 

Himāvatī: Did you see Nauvanī? 

Prabhupāda: Nauvanī is there. Yes. He is there still. He is also very good. He works very nice in the temple. 

Haṁsadūta: Every day. 

Prabhupāda: He’s a very good man. Everyone who will come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness will become good man, even he’s a bad man. That is the influence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarvair gunaiḥ tatra samāsate suraḥ. All godly qualities will develop in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the test. Now, our students, nobody can compare with their behavior, with their character, with their innocence. Everything nicer. So don’t worry. Simply go on chanting. Everything will be all right. Don’t worry. 

Jadurāṇī: Doesn’t sound like you’re concerned about temple affairs. 

Prabhupāda: No. It… That’s all right. For the time being you don’t touch. You chant and everything will be… Soon you will be in good health. Then you will again work. Yes. Śāradīyā, you are painting? No. All right, you finish your school. You are going to school? 

Śāradīyā: Yes. 

Prabhupāda: That’s nice. You are painting? That’s nice. You? That’s nice. Practice painting nicely. We’ll require so many pictures. We shall publish so many pictures, book. You are not painting. You have no time to paint. You have got enough engagement. So you can… So long you are here, you just show how to Deity worship, how you are doing that, and they will learn. Yes. She is doing that very nice. So you can, all of you, all girls, you take, her. See doing, how she is doing. Who is doing your temple worship? 

Haṁsadūta: Are you going to give some more instruction? 

Prabhupāda: No. This is… In this age temple worship is not recommended. 

Haṁsadūta: It’s not recommended. But Deity worship is temple worship? 

Prabhupāda: It is Deity worship. Because nobody can actually, very nicely perform, this age is not suitable. You see? Temple worship, the regulation, the engagement—at least four, five men must always be engaged, always, twenty-four hours. 

Haṁsadūta: In the temple worship. In the temple. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. We haven’t got sufficient men, neither we can arrange such a way. Besides that, your previous culture, everything is completely different. So in this age Caitanya Mahāprabhu has…, this saṅkīrtana, Hare Kṛṣṇa, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21]plugin-autotooltip__small plugin-autotooltip_bigŚrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 17.21

" 'In this Age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for self-realization than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari.'
. This is all round. But at the same time, if you can perform as far as possible, that’s nice, Deity worship. In this age Deity worship is secondary. Saṅkīrtana is primary. 

Haṁsadūta: Does it matter who performs the Deity worship? Does it matter? I mean is it some particular person? 

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is called arcana-siddhi. 

Haṁsadūta: Who should do it? I mean, in the temple who should do it? 

Prabhupāda: No, everyone should do it. Yes, everyone should learn. Everyone should learn. Sometimes somebody is doing something, somebody is doing something. Yes, like that. Everyone should be expert in every respect, twenty-six qualifications. [car noise outside] You have got car here? No. Nobody has got car amongst our disciples? 

Jadurāṇī: No. 

Himavatī: Do you need a car, Swamiji? 

Prabhupāda: No, because the temple is here, just in front. So what is the use of car? 

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, I found a place very likely for a new temple. And I’ve gone so far as… The lawyer even drew up a lease. So maybe tomorrow you could look at it. 

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. What is the description? 

Satsvarūpa: Very excellent location, right downtown. The things wrong with it is that the temple area is no bigger than the temple area we have now, but the location is just the greatest. Second floor. Still, right downtown. 

Prabhupāda: Second floor. So what is the rent? 

Satsvarūpa: Three hundred a month. But we can do it as long as… Presently, Patita-pāvana is working and so am I, and sometimes the gopīs get some money. So we wouldn’t have any problem as long as Patita-pāvana would continue to work. 

Prabhupāda: All right, Kṛṣṇa will solve the problems. But the space is not lesser than this temple? 

Satsvarūpa: Well, the temple room is maybe even smaller than the present temple room, but then there’s another large, very large room for a kitchen and then another space where bunks could be for sleeping. So there’s actually three different spaces. The thing is that the main temple hall is not too large. 

Prabhupāda: That’s all right. That doesn’t matter. You have to take saṅkīrtana party. That should be the main business. And the…, at least sixteen men, four mṛdaṅgas. Practice mṛdaṅga like that. And twelve cymbals, and one chanting and all others responding. Oh, it will be tremendous. Take some flags, “ISKCON, Hare Kṛṣṇa” flag, red flag. You see? And conchshell, mṛdaṅga. In New York they are doing now, and they also one day collected 240 dollars or something like that. What is that? 

Puruṣottama: 247. 

Prabhupāda: 247. You see? [chuckles] 

Haṁsadūta: I’ll try in Montreal. We have new devotees now, lot of new boys. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, you will get devotees. You just begin saṅkīrtana party. You will get many devotees. You see? In Los Angeles, daily the devotees, new devotees, are coming, and very nice boys. We are now searching after a bigger place. Yes. That temple is not sufficient, although that is the biggest center of all our centers. It has got compound. It has got parking place. It has got two big halls, one big room, one big kitchen, and three, four, five small rooms. It is a nice situation, you see, just suitable for our purpose. And they decorate Jagannātha very nicely. Yes. So increase centers. And what is the name of the boy who went to… Nanda-rūpa[?]. He wants to open Toronto? 

Haṁsadūta: In Toronto. Toronto is a very good place to go. 

Prabhupāda: So let him open. 

Haṁsadūta: Let him go? 

Prabhupāda: Yes. 

Haṁsadūta: Okay. But not alone. He needs someone else, I think. He needs one more boy. I don’t think by himself he can do it. 

Prabhupāda: That we shall arrange, somebody to go. Yes. 

Haṁsadūta: Maybe you remember Mr. Sini[?] in Montreal? 

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. 

Haṁsadūta: Well, he approached me just recently. He wants to open a store, Indian store and goods, and he wants the boys in the temple to work there. He wants to make some arrangement so the temple will get some money. 

Prabhupāda: He is very cunning man. 

Haṁsadūta: Yes, I know. I don’t trust him at all. 

Prabhupāda: He wants to utilize our men. 

Haṁsadūta: Yes. Don’t deal with him, right? That’s what I thought. 

Prabhupāda: He wants a cheap, cheap price. [Break] I don’t believe all these things they have… They have come here to beg, to make money. You see? Their mentality cannot be good. 

Haṁsadūta: I have a letter for you from Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. 

Prabhupāda: Oh. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is a good boy. 

Haṁsadūta: Oh, he’s very nice. Oh, he’s getting so nice. He wants to come. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because he is serving. 

Himavatī: He lives in our house now. 

Haṁsadūta: He lives with us now. You know we have another house, the whole house, and almost everyone now is a devotee there. And they’re eating prasādam. 

Prabhupāda: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is very nice boy. You give him good protection, and he will turn very good help. Sevonmukhe… This Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be, I mean to say, appreciated only by service. There is no other, no other way. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. You cannot catch Kṛṣṇa by any way, by your riches, by your beauty, by your…, because He excels everything. How you can make Him under your control? You can simply make Him under your control by service, like the gopīs did. Yes. What is this? Prasāda? Oh, I think I cannot take any. All right, I shall take some. 

Satsvarūpa: The devotees have prasādam over at the temple that’s ready. 

Prabhupāda: Oh, they can take. They can go. [Break]… initiated, they are chanting mantras three times, oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ savitur vareṇyam? Yes. [devotees chanting japa] 

[break] …very beautiful towns[?] in India. 

Haṁsadūta: What are they called? 

Prabhupāda: It costs not much with single… [Someone turns on tape of chanting] Oh, the… Middle. Middle. What is this? Tune? Tune? No, what is called? 

Satsvarūpa: Speed. 

Prabhupāda: Speed. Yes. That’s all right. Oh, so many things. This is the rest of… 

Haṁsadūta: Conchshell. 

Prabhupāda: Is it broken? 

Haṁsadūta: A little bit. What is this for, Swamiji? 

Prabhupāda: This? Pancapātra. 

Haṁsadūta: What do you put in there? Ghee? 

Prabhupāda: No. Water. Ācamana. And what is this? 

Himāvatī: Look inside. 

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha? 

Himāvatī: Yes. [end]