# Illicit Sex and Social Service, Melbourne, 1975 **Location:** Melbourne (1975) **Duration:** 19:03 <div class="video-container" style="position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.25%; height: 0; overflow: hidden; max-width: 100%;"> <iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/01jVM9hxNpc" style="position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; width: 100%; height: 100%; pointer-events: auto; z-index: 10;" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> </div> [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01jVM9hxNpc) --- ## Transcript **[00:13]** We are training, sometimes people laugh. "What is this nonsense?" **[00:20]** They criticize. The leaders of the society do not encourage it. **[00:31]** Now yesterday I was talking with one priest about illicit sex life, he said, **[00:42]** "What is wrong there, it is a great pleasure." Yes. **[00:51]** We are training, we are advocating that illicit sex is sinful. **[01:02]** Our first condition is that one must give up these four things: **[01:09]** illicit sex, meat eating, intoxication and gambling. **[01:16]** This is my first condition, before accepting. So they agree and they follow. **[01:25]** That's what our clients won't do. **[01:30]** Yes they will do, if regular institution runs on with all facilities. **[01:40]** We get so many devotees who come here. **[01:43]** After some time they become dedicated devotees. The method must be there. **[01:50]** ...that was another brothel. —the hippie farm. **[01:58]** And I went there. The organizer took me there. **[02:09]** So I think if you are serious let us combinedly open an institution **[02:20]** where people should be trained up how to become first-class. **[02:27]** Children should be trained up. That will make a solution. **[02:34]** You have to change society then. **[02:37]** No, no. No change. Let society be what it is. **[02:41]** We train up some children as we are doing in Dallas. **[02:47]** And some men also, just like we have trained up. It is possible, this is practical example. **[02:55]** So priest should be ideal character, and they are advocating homosex. **[03:01]** Where is the ideal character man? **[03:04]** If the priestly class are going to hospital for drinking habit **[03:12]** and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then where is ideal character? **[03:18]** Homosexuality is a sickness, an illness. **[03:23]** It's just like a person can't see, you would punish him for not seeing, **[03:26]** you can't punish a person for being homosexual. That's what our society says. **[03:32]** Anyway, the priestly class sanctioning homosex. **[03:36]** Sanctioning, they are allowing homosex. **[03:39]** And there was report that man and man was married by the priest. **[03:48]** In New York there is a paper, "Watchtower." That is a Christian paper. **[03:58]** I have seen it, that paper. **[03:59]** They are condemning that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. **[04:06]** And they are passing resolution, homosex resolution, passing, all right. **[04:12]** And in Perth you said the students are discussing about homosex, **[04:23]** in favor of homosex. So where is the ideal character? **[04:30]** If you want some tangible business train some people to become ideal character. **[04:42]** That is this Krishna consciousness movement. **[04:46]** But people will say what is ideal to you is not ideal to someone else. **[04:52]** I am giving the example of ideal character. **[04:55]** Yes. But that's one opinion. **[04:56]** No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion. **[05:03]** What is the value of opinion if the people are all asses? **[05:07]** No. There is no opinion. One should take as it is enjoined in the sastras. No opinion... **[05:14]** ...and what if the Brahmanas start to rule the world in their own interest? **[05:26]** No, no... It is not vested interest. It is the character. Just like sama, peaceful... **[05:40]** They might form a class of their own and have their own interest **[05:42]** and try to rule the world accordingly. **[05:45]** No. Because they are honest. That is the world of difference. They will not do that. **[05:49]** They must go according to the book. -Yes **[05:52]** Honest means he is not for his own interest, for everyone's interest. That is honesty. **[05:58]** Now what if he's misguided? Suppose the world changes since that book was written. **[06:05]** No, no. Simply because they did not follow. Just like in India. **[06:10]** This is the character of the Brahmanas. **[06:13]** Later on, gradually the culture was lost since the last one thousand years **[06:20]** because India was subjugated by foreigners. The Mohammedans. **[06:29]** They introduced some of their culture. Then the Britishers came. **[06:32]** Everyone whats their interest. **[06:35]** When British rule came their Lord Mackalie's private report was that **[06:46]** if you wan to keep them as Indian Hindus you'll never be able to rule over them. **[06:56]** So it was British government´s policy to condemn everything Indian. **[07:05]** How would you react if somebody breaks into this place and tries to rob some of the... **[07:12]** He said how would we react is someone breaks in and tries to rob the building. **[07:17]** Rob? -A thief. What would we do if a thief came in. **[07:22]** If a thief came in we shall punish him. **[07:26]** You shall be violent. -Why not? A thief should be punished. **[07:30]** You would punish yourself? What would you do? Would you start attacking him? **[07:38]** No. Ourself or anyone, a thief, he has to be punished. **[07:43]** A thief has to be punished. Ourselves or yourself, it doesn't matter. **[07:49]** A thief is thief. He should be punished. **[07:53]** What if he breaks in because he is hungry? **[07:57]** Who breaks? -He says, "What if he breaks in because he is hungry?" **[08:05]** Then we say everyone should come and eat. Why he should remain hungry? **[08:11]** We invite everyone. Come here, eat. No charge. We don't charge. **[08:18]** So why should he remain hungry? Let us increase this program. **[08:24]** All hungry men of Melbourne city come here and take your eating sumptuously. **[08:30]** We invite, "Come on." Why you should remain hungry? **[08:35]** What if he's and alcoholic and he's hungry? **[08:37]** We have a couple of alcoholics that come here and we give them food every night. **[08:42]** You do. -Yes -Just like the Gordon House? -Yes. **[08:45]** They come, we feed them. We have a feast every Sunday, they come. **[08:48]** It requires little time to practice, otherwise it is open for everyone. It is above politics. **[09:01]** From your point of view but we in the department depend on political decisions. **[09:07]** The department means another set of... **[09:12]** Yes, that's just an instrument, a public will. **[09:14]** The minister is elected according to public will in our society. **[09:18]** Because they have made a department, just like your department. **[09:21]** What is that department? Social welfare. **[09:23]** Social welfare. So if they find social welfare why not help? Why they bring politics? **[09:33]** If actually there is social welfare here, why not support it? --Yes, well you're right. **[09:42]** But in our society a minister is elected to carry out certain policies. **[09:50]** Not what he wants but what the people voted for. **[09:55]** But if your policy is social reformation. **[09:59]** Social reformation is not our policy. -Then social welfare. **[10:04]** Just to look after those who are in trouble. That's our policy. **[10:08]** Well, everyone is in trouble. -Parden? **[10:11]** At the present moment even the ministers are in trouble. **[10:15]** Yes, but that is not what our function is. Everybody is in trouble. **[10:19]** Physician heal thyself. You see. **[10:22]** They're also drunkards, they're also women hunters, and meat eaters and gambling. **[10:28]** That's all. They require to be rectified. **[10:33]** But we can't help that. **[10:37]** You have to change society and then society tells us to act differently. **[10:41]** Unless you change the society how can you make social welfare? **[10:44]** If you keep them as it is then were is the question of welfare? **[10:49]** You give a different interpretation to the words. **[10:56]** Basically one must be first-class, ideal man, that is wanted. **[11:06]** That's why it is so very difficult. **[11:10]** You have to work on your own... if you convince enough people. **[11:16]** You find out... Our own program it is not vox populi. You find out fault with us. **[11:22]** You find out what is our fault. -I can't see any fault. **[11:29]** Then you can disagree, but when you see everything is nice how can you not accept it? **[11:35]** Unless you are biased? **[11:38]** Of course I am biased. I've been brought up differently -Yes **[11:43]** Just like you're biased against my life. -No we are not biased, we are allowing. **[11:52]** We say that if you want to be first-class man then you must not commit sinful activities. **[12:01]** That is our proposition. **[12:04]** But I as a public servant, I'm not here to change society... **[12:10]** We're also public, we belong to the public. You must become our servant also. **[12:16]** What. -We are public, members of the public. You should become our servant also. **[12:23]** If you are public servant. **[12:25]** A public servant, in our philosophy is a man who serves a minister **[12:32]** elected by the people. In this way he serves the public... **[12:36]** Therefore we are reforming the public. -Yes, that's what I mean. **[12:42]** ...I might agree with you that if all of us would be Krishna. -Not all **[12:47]** Then a social worker would be different. **[12:51]** Just like we are proposing here, I'm not proposing, Krishna says, **[12:57]** that one must be peaceful. How to become peaceful? **[13:02]** If his mind is always disturbed how he can become peaceful? **[13:06]** You're quite right. So that is the secret of success. **[13:11]** You want to make people peaceful but you do not know how to make him peaceful. **[13:16]** So therefore we have to adopt this. **[13:20]** We have a competitive society. **[13:23]** We say that you chant Hare Krishna, eat here sumptuously, live here comfortably **[13:32]** and you become peaceful. It is guaranteed. **[13:37]** If anyone, even a mad man, agrees to these three principles. **[13:42]** That let him chant Hare Krishna maha-mantra, take whatever nice foodstuffs **[13:50]** that we prepare and live peacefully, he will be peaceful. **[13:55]** What's your answer that still such a small percentage, **[13:59]** tiny percentage of the population accept the philosophy. **[14:03]** Tiny percentage, just like there are so many stars in the sky, and there is one moon. **[14:14]** In percentage the moon is nothing. If you take percentage of the stars, **[14:22]** the moon is nothing. But moon is [more] important than all the nonsense stars. **[14:26]** But if you take percentage there is no percentage but because he is moon **[14:36]** he is more important than all these rascal stars. This is the example. **[14:44]** What is the use of taking the percentage of the stars in the presence of the moon. **[14:51]** Let there be one moon, that is sufficient. There is no question of percentage. **[14:56]** One ideal man. **[14:59]** Just like in Christian world, one ideal Jesus Christ. **[15:03]** How to you feel about Mou Sei Tong? **[15:09]** In China he's the ideal man. - He's a communist. **[15:13]** His ideal is all right. His idea, communist idea that everyone should be happy. **[15:22]** That is good idea but they do not know how to make everybody... **[15:27]** Just like they are taking care of the human beings in the state **[15:32]** but they are sending poor animals to the slaughterhouse. Because they age Godless. **[15:38]** They do not know that the animal is also a living being, **[15:43]** and the human being is also a living being. **[15:46]** So for the satisfaction of the tongue of the human being the animals should be cut throat. **[15:55]** That is the defect. **[16:04]** If the leaders of the society become compassionate with this movement... **[16:14]** Our minister regards himself as a servant of the people. He can be kicked out at any time. **[16:19]** That is the defect. The people are rascals and they have elected another rascal **[16:24]** That is the defect, then what can be done? Hopeless. **[16:30]** O you can work on the... **[16:32]** We are going without depending on these rascals. **[16:35]** We are going on, we are publishing our books, we are making our movement. **[16:39]** We are honestly trying, that's all. That we are doing, all over the world. **[16:45]** All we can do is allow you to convince the population differently. **[16:49]** Yes we are doing. **[16:49]** And when you do that then social welfare department... **[16:54]** Now suppose if we instruct a man, "Please do not have illicit sex." **[17:02]** Have you got any objection? **[17:04]** If I advise somebody that, "Do not have illicit sex," have you got any objection? **[17:10]** Yes, I have. -You have? -Yes **[17:14]** I like sex and my wife likes sex. We just enjoy it. We couldn't live without it. **[17:20]** Our marriage is happier because we have sex. **[17:24]** Just see. This is the condition. **[17:27]** ...enjoying sex and our marriage is happier with sex. **[17:31]** No we don't prohibit sex but we prohibit illicit sex. **[17:37]** But I have two children. We use the pill, we use contraceptives, **[17:42]** we use all kinds of things. Because it makes our life... **[17:48]** Why do you use contraceptives? **[17:50]** Because I don't want any more children. **[17:52]** Then why don't you stop sex? --Because I like sex, because I enjoy it. **[17:58]** That means you go to the physician, **[18:01]** "I want to do everything I like, still I want treatment." This is the position. You want... **[18:09]** I didn't come for treatment. **[18:11]** No, no, I say... You have come for treatment. You have. **[18:17]** I was invited... **[18:19]** Because you are paid to control the society, your activities. **[18:23]** Therefore you have come here for treatment. **[18:25]** But when I prescribe medicine you do not accept. **[18:28]** I didn't come for treatment. -No, yes. -Well you invited me. **[18:32]** Just to help you in your social activities, social welfare activities. **[18:38]** To take some suggestion from us. **[18:41]** But when we give the suggestion you reject it. That is your position.